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The Bible says a lot of things

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Matt Janes, Apr 27, 2018.

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  1. Matt Janes

    Matt Janes Member

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    When people start correcting people with Scripture and saying all people who through no fault of their own never heard of the Gospel went to hell, it is good to take it with a grain of salt. Scripture says a lot of things.

    The Bible says, "Many will become Eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom of God". Any volunteers?

    Scripture says "Call no man your Father, while at the same time says "honor your Father and Mother" and Paul says, "I became your Father".

    Scripture says no one has seen the face of God while at the same time saying Moses interacted with God face to face.

    Scripture says those who believe in Christ will drink poison and it will not affect them. Any volunteers?

    Scripture says "If you have the Faith of a mustard seed, you can move mountains". Anyone seen a mountain move?

    Scripture says, "ask anything of the Father in my name and it will be done for you". Many people beg God incessantly for healing of various afflictions in the name of Jesus and healing doesn't take place. I've personally experienced this far too many times to count.

    Scripture says "If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out". I know without a doubt that my eye causes me to sin. Should I pluck it? I kid you not, I was in a psyche ward with a patient who plucked out his eyes over a pornography addiction.

    Scripture says those who believe in Christ will do his works and greater works. There are approximately 2 billion Christians in the world and I know not of a single one who is doing the works of Christ and greater works.

    Scripture says it is shameful for a man to have long hair, yet all the depictions of Christ that I have seen show him with long hair.

    Scripture says it is wrong for a woman to talk in Church.

    Scripture says a lot of things.

    Scripture is full of hyperbole's, poetry, parables, and symbolism that isn't supposed to be taken literally. Scripture contradicts itself, has lost some meaning through translation, and much of the context is lost, especially if you don't understand the language and culture of when it was being said.

    Hence, the need for a Church. Christ knew people would misinterpret the Scriptures, so he set up a visible authority to settle disputes about Doctrine and Scriptural interpretation.

    The Bible does not teach that the Bible is the only and final authority for settling Doctrinal disputes and interpretation of Scripture.

    The first Christians were not Bible Christians. If the Bible was to be a final authority, surely Christ would have left people with such a book. He didn't. The Bible came hundreds of years later, and the printing press came much later. Most people were illiterate anyway until very recently in our history. The Catholic Church decided the Canon of the first Bible at the Councils of Rome, Carthage, and Hippo. The founder of the Protestant Reformation was a Catholic Priest, Hence, Protestants get their Bible from the Catholic Church and the Bible is a Catholic book.

    The early Christians relied on the Church. The Apostles didn't go around handing out Bibles and Scriptures to everyone.

    In the council of Jerusalem, Acts 15, The Apostles decided that following the law of Moses and circumcision was no longer necessary. That decision totally contradicted the Scriptures of that time. They, as the Church Hierarchy, and visible authority on earth, were guided by the Holy Spirit, and did not use the Scriptures as the infallible guide for their decision, because the Scriptures at that time totally went against their decision.

    This idea that the Bible is the final authority and only source of Theological truth was not practiced by any Church before the 16th century. Practicing this Doctrine is very common now a days but it is totally unbiblical. If the Bible is to be the final authority, then there should be something in the Bible that states that the Bible is the final authority, and there is nothing that states that.

    Protestant Churches were founded by men, and their foundation is an Unbiblical man-invented Doctrine that destroys itself.

    The Catholic Church however dates back to Christ, and the claim that someone other than Christ founded the Catholic Church has been repeatedly refuted.

    The World book encyclopedia shows an unbreakable chain of Bishops of Rome (Popes) dating back to the first century. The Second Pope was Saint Linus in 67 AD.

    The Protestant reformation splintered Christianity into thousands of denominations, because the Bible is such a confusing book to begin with and was never supposed to be the sole rule for sacred Theology.

    Before the 16th century there were occasional Schisms, but those Schisms were not Protestant anymore than the Eastern Orthodox Churches are Protestant.

    For many centuries, there was one Christian Church and you don't have to be a Historian to know it was the Catholic Church.

    Now, am I telling you you should convert to Catholicism? Absolutely not! If you have found a path that better works for you, follow your heart, follow your vocation, follow your calling....if the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

    What bothers me though, is that so many people who only follow the Bible, attack people for not following their interpretation of Scripture, and say that they are unsaved and going to Hell.

    I started a thread recently and was told that Buddha and all people who (through no fault of their own) never heard of Christ would go to Hell. That is simply disgusting, depressing, and the epitome of unjust! Yet it is a belief that is strangely prevalent due to people following the man-made, invented, solascriptura Doctrine.
     
  2. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    That's...a pretty gross post. Pantheism at it's finest.
     
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  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I know several men who have eschewed marriage and family so they are free to better serve the Lord.

    Having trouble understanding a simple historical statement? Jesus was referring to the Ab, or father of the Sanhedrin. Jesus teaches his disciples that He would have no Second, after himself, established in his Church, of which He alone was the head; and that perfect equality must exist among them.

    Never heard of a Christophany?

    Already fulfilled in the time of the Acts. This is a fairly standard promise made to the servants of God. Isaiah 43:2.

    Do you know what "hyperbole" means?

    Yes. "In my Name." Does God want His Name associated with your request?

    You were in a psyche ward? That explains a lot.

    Well, let's see. He gathered 12 together. We have gathered 2 billion together. Billy Graham preached to 215 million. Now, which is "greater" (larger) 12, 215 million. 2 billion. Math is not your strong suit, is it?

    Uh, you do know that painting was painted in 1940 by a man named Warner Sallman, right?

    No, it doesn't.

    So do you. The difference being Scripture is right and you are wrong.

    Actually the Church of Rome has its beginning in the unholy marriage of church and state under Emperor Constantine AD c325, and reached its present (apo)state under Pope Leo, called "The Great" around AD 450-460.
     
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  4. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    It sure does but it also says this... Brother Glen:)

    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
    Truth needs to be rightly divided!
     
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  5. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I now understand what you are claiming. The bible says the Holy Spirit discerns the Scriptures to us (1 Corinthians 2:14) and teaches us even without teachers (1 John 2:27).

    You are making the audacious claim that your ancestors and elders in the Roman Catholic Church are in fact led by the Spirit more than everyone else.

    I will have to work on a more full rebuttal to that position. I had not before thought that was the argument being made to me.

    As for the bible, I must offer a hypothetical. What if you are wrong in believing the Roman Catholic Church is spiritually discerning the truth? Wouldn't that mean that the only objective standard left was to go to the bible, the Word of God, to discern it and live it? That and seek those believers in church history who obeyed Jesus to the end to learn from them too?
     
  6. Matt Janes

    Matt Janes Member

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    There is no evidence that the Roman Catholic Church was founded in the time of Constantine. Constantine simply made Christianity legal.

    If there were a new Church in the time of Constantine there would be some evidence that there were other Christian Churches at the time of Constantine that were protestant, protesting "Constantine's Church."

    When Constantine made Christianity legal, there is no evidence whatsoever that there were any Protestant Churches, or that Constantine founded a new Church. If Constantine founded a new Church, what happened to the Old one??? It just up and vanished, then returned in the 16th century? Give me a break!

    No, the Catholic Church can trace itself back to Christ and the Apostles.

    I'm not telling anyone here they should convert to Catholicism. So, why am I defending Catholicism? Because I recently saw people using a solascriptura Doctrine to claim that all people who never heard of Christ (through no fault of their own) went to Hell! This thread is in response to that claim, not an attempt to convert people to Catholicism. If you find a way that fits better with you, I respect that (up until the point you start making ludicrous statements like everyone who never heard of Jesus is being tortured for all eternity!)
     
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  7. Matt Janes

    Matt Janes Member

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    If I was wrong about the Catholic Church, I would have to go with my conscience and pray to the Holy Spirit for the grace to discern what is right and wrong.

    My conscience tells me it is asinine to believe that those who never heard of Jesus (through no fault of their own) go to hell for all eternity to be tormented forever, and ever, and ever! My discernment and conscience tells me it is absolutely insulting God's justice and mercy to make such a statement, yet Christians do that so often and quote the Scriptures. It is absolutely an insult to God to declare that God permitted meek, humble, kind, generous, peaceful people who never heard of Jesus to go to a place of being tortured forever and ever and ever!!!
     
  8. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Please check my new response in your other thread.

    Thank you for an honest answer.

    I discern that this thread isn't really you staking ground for Catholic doctrine and wanting to defend it. Instead, it seems to be a continuation of your other thread before it has even closed. If I were you, I would complete my discussions at the other thread, and then come back to this one to defend Roman Catholic dogma. That is unless you want this thread closed, since defending Roman Catholic dogma is the direction it looks to be going in. And you may not be in the mood to defend your assertions in the OP. Nevertheless, I will not attack Roman Catholic dogma for now, as that seems to miss the point.
     
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  9. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Matt, it is good to see you posting again.

    Let me ask you, do you believe in objective truth?
     
  10. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    The Bible says, "Many will become Eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom of God". Any volunteers? Matthew 19 - Some are born eunuchs [born with no ability], some are made that way by other [slaves, etc], and some choose to live as if they were eunuchs. [Living a celibate life to serve the Lord] This is not figurative language. This is literal


    Scripture says "Call no man your Father, while at the same time says "honor your Father and Mother" and Paul says, "I became your Father". Matthew 23:8-10 Jesus is not talking about biological fathers. He is talking about the terms of a spiritual leader. He references many terms. He is warning against placing a mortal man spiritually in the role of God. Jesus is speaking literally.


    Scripture says no one has seen the face of God while at the same time saying Moses interacted with God face to face. God did speak to Moses face to face - as in how a "man speaks to his friend". So says Exodus 33. This does not mean their literal eyes, noses, mouths, and chins were next to each other. Moses then asks to see God's glory. God says he would show Moses his goodness, but that he, God, could NOT show Moses his literal face.


    Scripture says those who believe in Christ will drink poison and it will not affect them. Any volunteers? Jesus speaks literally here. No, the Bible does not say that Christians can drink poison and not get sick. Jesus said to his disciples that signs would be among the believing disciples as they spread out through the world teaching about Christ. Paul, for example, was snake bit, and God protected him. This is NOT a command to purposely drink dangerous substances. It is a promise for God to miraculously protect those early evangelists who were doing his work across the then known world. Jesus was speaking literally - a literal protection. There should be NO "volunteers" as you say. That would be foolishly testing God. These signs have come to pass.


    Scripture says "If you have the Faith of a mustard seed, you can move mountains". Anyone seen a mountain move? Oh, this is QUITE literal. Have you ever seen a mustard seed? It's so TINY. But a full blown mustard bush/tree can be up to 20 feet tall and very wide. It's not the size of the seed, but the exponential growth of the faith. I've only known one person in the Bible or today who had the faith of a mustard seed - booming exponentially to the point of believing the wildly impossible. That was Joshua. He believed God would give him a victory in battle and Joshua didn't ask God to stop the sun from going down. Joshua TOLD the sun to stop and God obeyed Joshua's command to the sun. The Bible says it's the only time God hearkened to the voice of a man and let the man call the shots. But it was because Joshua and his mustard seed faith was firmly entrenched in the will of God. Oh, yes, someone with that kind of faith could definitely shout out to the mountain and say "move".


    Scripture says, "ask anything of the Father in my name and it will be done for you". Many people beg God incessantly for healing of various afflictions in the name of Jesus and healing doesn't take place. I've personally experienced this far too many times to count. IF it is within the will of God. Paul had a terrible source of either physical pain or spiritual torment and he, too, begged God to take it away - three times. God said no - that he has a purpose in allowing that. James also say that we have not because we ask not....and if we do ask, we ask amiss. And again, Jesus was speaking in the context of his last words to those men who would turn the world upside down after he was gone.

    Scripture says "If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out". I know without a doubt that my eye causes me to sin. Should I pluck it? I kid you not, I was in a psyche ward with a patient who plucked out his eyes over a pornography addiction. I'm sorry about that patient. What he did not understand is that the images of porn will still be in his mind. I'll pray for him.

    Scripture says those who believe in Christ will do his works and greater works. There are approximately 2 billion Christians in the world and I know not of a single one who is doing the works of Christ and greater works. John 14 Not greater as in more powerful or more jaw-dropping. Greater as in spreading the movement across a greater area and increased in number. For example, Peter preached on the day of Pentecost and 3,000 people were saved. Greater in number. Think of how many 100's of thousands of people were saved in Billy Graham crusades. More in number. That's why Jesus left and sent the Holy Spirit. Jesus as a man on this earth could not walk the whole of the earth.

    Scripture says it is shameful for a man to have long hair, yet all the depictions of Christ that I have seen show him with long hair. 1 Corinthians 11 Truly you don't believe that pictures painted of Christ two thousand years after he walked this earth are really what he looked like? Besides men who were undergoing a Nazarite vow, such as Samson, Samuel, and any other man or woman who chose to were required to let their hair grow out until the vow was over. That might have taken years depending on the vow. You are quoting [or you've copied from someone] who is quoting Paul's directives about headship. A man praying and prophesying in the church with hair the length of a woman dishonored God. It has nothing to say about how "long" is "long". The context is praying and prophesying in the church. We have NO idea how long or short Jesus' hair was. And it truly doesn't matter.

    Scripture says it is wrong for a woman to talk in Church. No, the Bible does not say that women are not to speak in church. Paul, himself, says women can pray and prophesy in church with a head covering. He says, the same passage of 1 Corinthians 14 that three groups must be silent in church: people who want to speak in tongues when there is no interpreter, people giving a word of prophecy when God prompts another to speak, and wives who were asking their husbands questions in all of this chaos that the Corinthian church was in.
     
    #10 Scarlett O., Apr 27, 2018
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  11. Matt Janes

    Matt Janes Member

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    God knows what is true and that truth applies to all people
     
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  12. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Well, we're off to a good start, then.
     
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  13. I Love An Atheist

    I Love An Atheist Active Member

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    Paul praised the Bereans, and scripture tells us this about them:

    Acts 17:11 New International Version (NIV)
    11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
     
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  14. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    Do you really know what a eunuch is? It's not about one just eschewing marriage brother and I believe a knife is involved in the process of becoming one. Ouch!
     
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  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Do you know what a figure of speech is? A metaphor?
     
  16. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    According to Strong's Concordance and Thayer's Greek lexicon and the context of which Jesus was speaking, a eunuch is a man who is one of three things::

    [1] one who is born incapacitated for relations in a marriage
    [2] who has been physically castrated
    [3] one who voluntarily abstains from sex/marriage

    When Jesus said there are some who make themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake, he isn't talking about men who have their testicles removed voluntarily. He is talking about men who remain whole and abstain for the sake of the work of the Lord.
     
    #16 Scarlett O., Apr 28, 2018
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  17. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I know what eunuch is... He's unique because his procreation instrumentation motivation has met the blade... Brother Glen:D
     
  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Yup
     
  19. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Lets put you in a library with separate books along with extras and worst some fakes that contain false verses.

    And lets see you pick out the correct books of bible with the aid of the holy spirit alone.


    It is the authority of the church that provided the list of what books do and don't belong.


    The bible itself says if there is a conflict it is resolved by the church, not scripture.

    The claim is made that there is a bible verse that plainly says the bible is the FINAL and Only Authority concerning Christianity.

    It should be a easy win for you buddy, Show us this verse.
     
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  20. I Love An Atheist

    I Love An Atheist Active Member

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    Where does it say that?
     
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