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Featured Examining some of the misguided claims of 316 Tradionalists

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Jun 6, 2018.

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  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Okay, I can live with that. I saw the original statement as being similar to this:

    Matt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
     
  2. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Wow. Why in the world would you be reminded of this verse because of my statement?
     
  3. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    • Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
    • 2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
    • 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
    • 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    • 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    • 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
    • 7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
    • 8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
    • 9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
    • 10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
    • 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things .after the counsel of his own will:
    • 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
    • 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    • 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory
     
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  4. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Amen! Good post!
     
  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 1:15 AM Pacific.
     
  6. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Paul had no problem with "the already and not yet theology"

    Romans 8:29-30 seems to lay stages. Paul had no issue doing. Does the Bible not frequently speak of things from a man's perspective? Or do you actually believe is is the sun that rises and sets? Pslam's has no issue writing from man's perspective at times.

    Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
     
  7. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Then why can't you understand reformed theology?

    Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
     
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  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Because I see both as metaphorical statements.
     
  9. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    For the most part I understand it just fine. I just don't agree with it.
     
  10. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Election took place in eternity, but it comes to fruition in time.

    An elected official is elected in November, but doesn't take office until January.
     
  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    By being in Adam. When Adam fell, he being the representative of all his posterity, his sin caused all of us to be born condemned. Otherwise, babies could not die, seeing the wages of sin is death.[Romans 6:23]

    In Romans 5 we see this as a reality. Also 1 Corinthians 15:22.
     
  12. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Its not a matter of perspective but theology. And whenever a verse or passage of verses speaks to God actually hating ppl, ppl resort to allegorical or figurative or hyperbolic language. It says that God loved Jacob and hated Esau. Ppl then say that means God loved Esau, too, just a little less. The Christ said we can not serve two masters, we can not love two masters, but we must love one and hate the other.[Matthew 6:24 & Luke 16:13] As Christians, by using that logic, we are to love Satan, just a little less than the Christ.

    And if God's love is hyperbolic in biblical expression, how can we know for a surety His love is not hyperbolic as well??????
     
  13. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Ephesians 2:3 easily answers their question concerning this. Election is NOT salvation, as you and @TCassidy already stated. But it is one aspect of it.
     
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Would you please clarify what you mean when you said 'And preaching is not part of salvation?' Thanks my Brother.
     
  15. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Yes, condemned to die. You're conflating the penalty of physical death with the penalty of spiritual death.

     
  16. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    And if babies die sinless then the triune God is not the only one in heaven who is sinless.

    Do you not see the disconnect in your theology? You say babies die due to sin of Adam, and that's true. So, if they die due to his sin and not their owns, then his sin has been imputed unto them. That's like saying someone died from the flu and never having been exposed to the flu virus.
     
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  17. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    .This thread is closed.
     
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