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Featured Should the U.S.A. be Condemned and Judged for It's Sins?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Steven Yeadon, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I am contemplating praying for justice against the USA for its sins. I came here first before doing so, since that is something huge to do that should only be undertaken after counsel. I put this in the general forum since this has been a struggle I see other Christians wrestle with across the internet.

    I speak of sins like helping scoffers, such as atheists, abound and flourish and thrive. Of the sin of making foolishness, as defined by Proverbs, a normal thing, even a good thing to many people. Of letting people say the most vile and disgusting things about our God. Of all the sexual immorality going on, and for creating a pornography empire for all the world to be enraptured by. Of abortion and massacres of the unborn using reproductive science. Of denying people the justice of having their victimizer forced to accept the same level of penalty he or she inflicted on their loved one. Such as the death penalty for those who knowingly murder someone. Of perverting marriage beyond all recognition with liberal divorce laws and homosexual marriage. Of helping to found and then fund through state coffers the secular academia, whose purpose is to war against God and His Church among other things. Of creating a public education system with a hegemony on child rearing that teaches things against our faith, and in some places demonizes us. Of being a culture that missionaries to this nation tell me is the hardest soil they have ever encountered. Of creating and glorifying a culture based on the lusts of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and pride of life. And that's before I get to any of the more controversial policy debates among us Christians.

    In our favor, I wrestle with the fact we are a generous culture in that disabled people like myself are given enough money to eat, drink, get clothed, and find some sort of low cost living arrangement. We are a culture that lets hard working people prosper in opulence compared to the rest of the world. We are a nation that does not severely persecute Christians as elsewhere on planet earth.

    Then again, we are lost in sin as nation, and our hope is not that this nation will change in Christian's favor. The culture war is lost in reality. It is increasingly the Second Coming that is our real hope as Christians in America. I look to a supernatural intervention into the creation to save us from on high from Satan's dominion, which includes America I am sure.

    So what say you? Is it time to pray for consequences to our actions as a nation? Or is it time to double down and persevere for our neighbors that some few may be saved? Or both?
     
  2. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    I suggest you read Habakkuk - he prayed for the corrupt nation, was warned of the coming judgment by the Chaldeans - remonstrated with God & was assured that through all the coming trouble the just will live by faith.

    His closing prayer for revival in the form of a song includes - in wrath remember mercy.

    But in Gospel days, God is calling out his people, rather than nations.
     
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  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    The justice will come Steve, I would pray rather for repentance and Gods mercy
     
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  4. ehbowen

    ehbowen Member

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    I'm praying for the nuclear option. God present, in person, upon this earth...with the power and the authority to do something about the abuses and the abusers.

    It's not a stretch. I've met her...Proverbs 8. She's cute.
     
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  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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  6. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I don't think God judges nations anymore. He judges individuals.

    Why would you pray for God to pour out his judgment on a nation? Pray for revival.
     
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  7. ehbowen

    ehbowen Member

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    I would agree with that, BUT...if the individuals responsible are hiding behind the shield of "sovereign immunity" or "corporate limitations of liability" in order to evade accountability for their actions, then someone needs to step up and deconstruct their actions choice by choice in order to finally identify who was responsible for each evil and why. Luke 8:17; Matthew 12:36.

    It's a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it!
     
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  8. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I'm learning what grace is. It's that those who absolutely don't deserve an ounce of mercy be given blessing beyond all measure. I needed to sleep, get counsel, and time to think. Instead of praying for justice against the West and its allies, I will instead pray the following prayer I have been praying on behalf of my enemies:

    -Those who hate Yahweh, including all scoffers
    -Christians who profess faith but do not have the Spirit
    -Elders and deacons who do not have the Spirit
    -Those who persecute Christians and churchgoers all over the world
    -Those who harm the lowly, including demoniacs
    -America and the other nations of the world
    • May be saved
    • Will be disciplined and rebuked if they are Christians
    • May repent of their sins and be forgiven
    • Will be given their daily bread and joy every day
    • That I have perseverance on their behalf
    -Pray all Christians in sin, including myself, be disciplined and rebuked.
    -Pray all unbelievers have a foretaste of wrath like I did, that my worst enemies have joy every day if that may save them, just that in whatever way is best that they be hounded to salvation like I was.

    The only prayer of judgment I pray for is that disobedient churches (lampstands) be removed, which I read as praying with the bible (Revelation 2-3). It's how the world works anyway, best to pray with God than against Him is how I see it.
     
    #8 Steven Yeadon, Jun 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
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  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I think that as long as Christians remain a sizeable body in America, God will spare the USA just as he told Abraham he would spare Sodom and Gomorrah. When the last of God's elect comes in, the world ends in fire, America (if it still exists) too.
     
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  10. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I think brethren are looking at Old Testament judgement... I believe we are under judgement right now... Some will say now wait a minute, there is evil in the world... Is that anything new?... You are free to go to church and worship God aren't you?... Has anyone taken away your Bible or your desire to read it?... Have you been thrown in prison because of your belief?... Do you really know what judgement is?... No brethren God has shown us his mercy, you have yet to see his judgement!... But if we don't turn back to him and repent of our ways we will see his judgement... There will be a famine in our land of the word of God... Check your history its happened before, will it happen again?... That is not mine to say... We are all in the hands of God!... I just noticed the OP is talking about sins in plural but this scripture talks about sin in in the singular, what sin is this in reference too?... Brother Glen:)

    2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
     
    #10 tyndale1946, Jun 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
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  11. Esther Thompson

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    I think that alot of Christians do not understand who the Second Beast of Revelation 13 is. It is America.

    And they also do not understand that it is America that the Book of Revelation says once spoke as a Lamb but then is going to turn around and speak as a Dragon.

    America is going to fall, and when it gets to a certain point, America will receive punishment from God, because the more light a Nation has, the more darkness and the worse punishment the Nation will receive it's Leaders finally reject that light.

    There is not much left to have happen prophetically before the Mark of the Beast is enforced.

    Revelation 13:11,12
    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

    We can pray that God will continue to hold back the 'winds of strife' and delay what is going to be coming in taking away our Religious Liberties, but the inevitable is still going to happen at some certain point, because it is in Bible Prophecy. God has told us the future.

    The Judgments of God have already begun to be poured out though. But this is just the beginning. In Genesis it says that His Spirit will not always strive with Man.
     
    #11 Esther Thompson, Jun 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    HIS name is Jesus, not your girlfriend!
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Comparing our socirty morals and values from say the time before we kicked the bible and prayer and God to the curb in 60's, would seey race relations melt down, homosexual agenda, spreading islam and false religions, and abortions in tens of millions, the judgement of God has been here awhile!
     
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  14. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I already learned my lesson in post #8, but I refer to ALL of America's sins combined. I have a list of several in the second paragraph of the OP.

    I think God can and will judge this nation at the right time, which may be Judgment Day. However, I am learning to love the perishing sacrificially, as I should. I realize it's hard to be a church that, at this rate, will one day be nothing but Jeremiahs, Ezekiels, Lots, and Abrahams.
     
  15. Esther Thompson

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    God has been beginning to withdraw His Spirit from the Earth, and that is why we are seeing all of thes People doing things like mass murders and shootings, blatant Homosexuality and even marriages, abortions by the millions and so on. Many People are losing their ability to tell right from wrong and/or even caring if what they do is right or wrong, He is giving them over to a reprobate mind, as it says in Romans Chapter 1.

    God is pouring out His Judgments starting with drops here and there like terrible natural disasters, one after another and so forth. It will only get worse as time goes by.

    Isaiah 24:5
    5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

    Like the Bible says, He is sending them a strong delusion, and taking away their spiritual eyesight, because they have rejected His Word.

    Isaiah 29:
    9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.
    10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
    11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
    12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
    13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
    14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
    15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
     
  16. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    And you know this...how?
     
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  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How can a being who is Omnipresent ever withdraw and leave?
     
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  18. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Of course, I assume God still judges the nations of the earth as He has throughout history. I will name two examples of nations destroyed since Christ came (there are dozens of such examples):

    The Empire of Japan
    The Native American empires of Central and South America

    I believe that such massive calamity is not accidental and the bible says in Amos 3:6 that cities, let alone nations, only suffer calamity because He wills it. So many cities have been flattened since Christ came it is beyond all belief. This speaks to me that He is judging as He always has.
     
  19. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    Excerpt from the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence:

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

    Assuming "their Creator" is God, do you believe these statements are sound Biblical doctrine?

    Could it be that the seeds for the sins of this nation where broadcast in these statements and by the hypocrites who signed it?

    What do the references to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness mean to the man on the street?
    1. Life: physical, spiritual, eternal?
    2. Liberty: to live as you please without consequences?
    3. Pursuit of happiness: do whatever makes you happy?
    Slavery in this country predated the drafting and signing of the DOI. Try and reconcile that.
     
  20. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Interesting thought... Did God judge England when the pilgrims left on the Mayflower?... And did God judge the Indian nation when the pilgrims landed in the New World?... I guess you could say we are sitting on land once occupied by an Indian?... Brother Glen:)
     
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