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Featured Should the U.S.A. be Condemned and Judged for It's Sins?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Steven Yeadon, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I do believe that the native Americans were judged for some reason. They were nearly annihilated. I have to say that because I sincerely believe that people like myself, who wanted to serve in the military and thus was willing to die for my own people, will not die in vain for their own people unless God has a really good reason. The weight of so many fallen for their people, I hope their blood screams out to Christ Jesus in some way.

    We have argued about Amos 3:6 on the BB a couple of times in the last year and a half. The consensus IIRC was that God doesn't always tell us why calamity befalls some cities.

    I do believe civil wars, if you refer to the English Civil War, are judgments of some kind. They are so utterly terrible, how could they not be? Each one seems like watching the siege of Jerusalem in the Book of Jeremiah and the Book of Lamentations.
     
  2. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Someday we are going to have land beyond our wildest imagination... Harmony with each other that only exist in dreams... Nothing to disturb our love and peace... Never again will we hear of Wars or rumors of War... The Evils of men will cease to exist... WE WILL REIGN WITH OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST!... FOREVER!... Brother Glen:)
     
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  3. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    You know, for a time I was afraid of war ending. This sounds weird, but I was denied service in the military due to a sudden illness. In my case, it was schizoaffective disorder, that didn't show itself until two weeks before I sat down with a recruiter after college. I never got to see action, and I was so sad that I never would. Took me a while to understand that peace is that precious. Thanks for the posts in the thread.
     
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  4. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    I suggest it would help your perspective tremendously to go and live in (not just visit) some other countries for a while. The USA is not the source of all the evils you cited, nor the most overwhelmed by them. And you don’t really know how many or few are still to be saved, do you?
     
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  5. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I understand what you are saying, it helps my perspective to know that something like modern China exists or that ancient Rome existed. Sometimes the perseverance for the people we are to reach is beyond all words and all horror. Also, no I don't know how many are left to be saved in America. That is a good point.
     
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  6. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Honestly man, I don't know. Full disclosure, I at times (a lot of times) find myself praying half of California slides into the ocean.
     
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  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    God does not change. ...nations are being judged...but you seem to make it up as you go anyway.
     
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  8. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Careful there Brother, I know what half you are thinking of and I live in that half... I've already been baptized and at times I could use another dose but not that way:eek:... Brother Glen:)
     
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  9. Esther Thompson

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    Jesus said the following in Matthew 24, the Chapter that gives many of the signs of the 'End of the World'. In Matthew 24,The Disciples had asked Jesus What would be the signs of His coming, and of the End of the World:

    Matthew 24:31-33
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
    32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
    33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

    We as Christians have the capability of knowing or discerning when these things are getting close to happening in the World.

    And while everyone else is rejoicing over the New World Order today, Christians are going to discern what is really going on. They are going to see in this Movement something 'wonderful', this gathering together of the Nations to create a Man-made 'Peace'. But they are in reality leaving God out of the picture, and just as the Kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome fell, so too will their propped up idea of propsperity fall...

    1 Thessalonians 5:3-5
    3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

    Isaiah 8:9-13
    9 Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces.
    10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.
    11 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying,
    12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.
    13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.

    You look around and see all the signs fast-fulfilling... everythign that Jesus said in Matthew 24 has happened. Now we are just waiting for what happened to the People in Noah's Day, wars and rumors of wars, Nation against Nation, People's hearts failing them for fear of what is coming upon this Earth, bold robberies, Men possessed by demonic spirits taking the lives of innocent people, even Children, and so on.

    Matthew 24:37-39
    37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
    39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    God is not going to continue offering His mercy, He is going to withdraw it at some point...

    Genesis 6:3
    3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man

    We can tell this is already taking place, or starting to happen. The signs are all there. In Matthew 24 one the signs was earthquakes in diverse places, in other words Natural disasters one after another and in places they never occurred before. It is like when Jesus was dying on the Cross and Nature 'sympathised' by turning to darkness. People had rejected Christ and murdered Him. Just like when they stoned Stephen, their time was up and God withdrew His mercy and erusalem was destroyed.

    Well it will be te same at the end of time. God's Angels of mercy are holding back the winds of strife until God's People will be ready and sealed on their foreheads. And then all hell with break lose, so to speak.

    Revelation 7:1-3
    7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
    2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
    3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

    And as these final events are taking place, one of the things that God is doing, is to withdraw His Spirit from the World, from the unrepentant. As I said before, Genesis says , the Spirit of God will not always strive with Men, Just like at the flood, He finally gives them to destruction. But before He does this, He begins by withdrawing His Spirit, and withdrawing His LIGHT.

    He removes His candlestick, that gives the LIGHT.... In other words, God puts out their CONSCIENCE, and their ability to tell right from wrong, because they rejected the light... He does it to professed Christians,

    Revelation Chapter 2
    1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
    2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
    3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
    4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
    5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

    And He does the same to the wicked,


    Romans 1:18-32
    God finally gives them up to a Reprobate Mind
    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
    24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
    30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
    32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

    And we as Christians have the privilege of discerning and knowing when these things are taking place, just as Jesus said, we know the seasons, and as it says in Thessalonians, we are not in the dark, it won't come as a theif in the night to us. We are going to know there will be no peace and safety and that destruction is soon to come, instead.

    Revelation Chapter 9 tells of the scourge that the Moslem World would bring to the apostate Christian Church and this has happened. This false Religion would be set up. Now God is allowing further things to take place, such as the destruction of His Judgments upon America with the World Trade Center.

    There is the darkness in the Churches, and the apostasy. Revelations says they will become 'a cage of every unclean and hateful bird'. This means demonic spirits. The Bible says that some will depart from the faith, giving heed to demonic spirits and doctrines of devils. Yet another sign of the end and that God is withdrawing His Spirit from the Churches, and leaving them in darkness. Like we read before, He would remove His candlestick. In Revelation Chapter 3 it says that God would spew them from His mouth if they do not repent.

    Revelation 18:2
    And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

    1 Timothy 4:1
    1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils

    "Make no mistake about it: the appeal of the New Age ideas and practices is continuing to grow. Millions of Christians espouse New Age beliefs without realizing what they are doing. Many leaders in the Church are poorly informed and unaware of this subtle threat to Christian orthodoxy." Barna, The Barna Report, 1992-93
     
    #29 Esther Thompson, Jun 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  10. Esther Thompson

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    Steve,

    This is the connection between God putting the light out from His Candlestick in the Sanctuary an the withdrawing of His Holy Spirit.

    Remember the Wise and Foolish Virgins with the lamps and some had no oil?

    Ps. 119:105. The oil is a symbol of the Holy Spirit. Thus the Spirit is represented in the prophecy of Zechariah. "The angel that talked with me came again," he says, "and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep, and said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof; and two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord? . . . Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, saith the Lord of hosts. . . . And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? . . . Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth." Zechariah 4:1-14.

    From the two olive trees the golden oil was emptied through the golden pipes into the bowl of the candlestick, and thence into the golden lamps that gave light to the sanctuary.

    The Holy Spirit oil is what is poured into the candlesticks of the Sanctuary. So when He puts out the candlestick light, that is what it means, He is withdrawing His Holy Spirit. 'Thy Word is like a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path'. He withdraws the light of His WORD and gives them up, to then walk in darkness.

    Thessalonians says that finally God would actually 'send them a strong delusion that they might believe a lie'.

    2 Thessalonians 2:10-13
    And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. ...

    God simply puts out the rejected or unappreciated light.

    Isaiah 29:9-15
    9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.
    10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
    11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
    12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
    13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
    14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
    15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?

    All you have to do is just look around you, at the Churches and at the things going on in the World today. All of the signs are there.

    And America has been given the light of the Gospel Message much longer and more than any other Nation.

    In fact, if you study out the Book of Revelation Chapter 13 you will discover that Amerca is that Second Beast that tells the People Let us make an image to the first Beast, which is the Papacy, or the 'little horn' power of Daniel, the Antichrist Power. America is said in Revelation Chapter 13 to have once spoken 'as a Lamb' or like Christ, but then will turn around and go in the opposite direction and begin to speak 'as a Dragon' or like Satan. They are going to join with the Catholic Church to persecute, just as happened during the 1,260 Years of the Papal persecution when they torured and killed millions, for being 'heretics'. This period of time is mentioned 7 times in total, in the Bible, in Daniel and in Revelation.

    They have been setting this up behind the scenes in preparation now for very long time. If you want more details on this watch the video here about it.

    Catholic Power vs. American Freedom
     
    #30 Esther Thompson, Jun 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    You don't think the Civil War, WWI and WWII were judgment on nations?
     
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  12. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Yup, THIS.
     
  13. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Flee Sodom.
     
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  14. The Messenger

    The Messenger New Member

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  15. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    America will not be judged for its sins. Individual Americans will be judged. The Lord Jesus Christ is going to look at all of us as well as everyone who ever lived and say: inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren you did it unto me.
     
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  16. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    Amen.
     
  17. The Messenger

    The Messenger New Member

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    Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots has already been judged for her sins.
     
  18. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    America is certainly getting worse and worse. The USA we came back to in 2014 is quite different and worse than the USA we left for Japan in 1981.

    Having said that, there are many countries in the world far worse. Think of the hatred and violence towards Christians in Muslim and Communist countries. Or just think about Japan, supposedly a "good, democratic country." However, Japan has: ubiquitous idolatry (the worst sin in the Decalogue), twice the abortion per capita, virtually no enforcement of laws against spousal abuse unless there is a murder, unrestrained lust for money, unrepentant evil in the past (WW2), unrestrained porno of the worst kind in almost every bookstore.

    God in His mercy sent the 2011 triple tragedy (earthquake, tsunami, nuclear meltdown) to wake up Japan, and it did some good, but the country is not that different.

    So, every disaster God sends to America is God speaking to us to repent. But it's an evil world out there.
     
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  19. Esther Thompson

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    The idea is all over the place, in the Bible.
    Just read it :)

    Why do you think that people pray for the Holy Spirit? Why pray for it if everyone just already has it? And if God can give it, He can just as easily take it away. This is just common sense. Why do you think that the Foolish Virgins had no oil in their lamps? And what do you think that was? Vegetable oil?

    And why do you think that Jesus told the Parable of the Man who swept and garnished? He cleaned his house and the demons left, but he did not take care to have God's Spirit in the House, and so the demons came back, in fact even more of them. What do you think this means?

    The fact that God is Omnipresent has nothing to do with it.

    If someone becomes demonically possessed, do you imagine that they still have the Holy Spirit as well? OF COURSE, God can and does withdraw His Spirit from some.


    Ezekiel 5:11 – God Leaves the Temple
    “Therefore, as I live, declares the Lord God, surely, because you have defiled my sanctuary with all your detestable things and with all your abominations, therefore I will withdraw.”

    Psalm 143:7. Answer me quickly, oh Lord. My spirit fails. Hide not your face from me lest I be like those who go down to the pit.

    Isaiah 64:7. There is no one who calls upon your name, who rouses himself to take hold of you. For you have hidden your face from us, us, your covenant people, and have made us melt in the hand of your iniquities.

    There would be no reason for anybody to ask God not to hide His face from us, if it were impossible for Him to even do so.
     
    #39 Esther Thompson, Jun 27, 2018
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  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Even after being born from above we still sin, right. So God really doesn't fix the problem does He. Rather He tells us to be perfect, like your heavenly Father. But He is the only one who is & can be perfect. So He frustrates us by making us do something unattainable.

    So my question to you is why are we fighting sin? Isn't sin just another word for "Reality?" Yea we have it written in our hearts not to Murder, become an adulterer, not to cheat & steal .....and here is a good one, Not to Covet! LOL, how do you do that when the whole system is built for coveting?

    But I do believe that the Lord does sit back and provide freedom of choice. I can refuse to be a slave to sin, to the government, to religion, to misfortunes in my life. Indeed I could use life's experiences to educate & elevate myself & if i believe in any Deity, I would thank him for the liberty of choice.....for without it we would be slaves indeed.
     
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