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Featured Double Predestination

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reynolds, Jul 31, 2018.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Whosoever wants to get saved will be, and that would be the sheep of Jesus, the Ones given to him by the Father!
     
    #141 Yeshua1, Aug 2, 2018
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    ““I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,” (John 17:20)
     
    #142 1689Dave, Aug 2, 2018
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I see it as being that ALL have sinned in Adam, all deserve Hell, and will freely reject Jesus to dave them, so God permits me to have that final state he predestined for all who reject Jesus. He acively saves His own elect.
     
    #143 Yeshua1, Aug 2, 2018
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Honestly that is what all you guys say, we do not know what you believe. Its a record that gets repeated over and over and over here and elsewhere.
     
    #144 Revmitchell, Aug 2, 2018
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he indded held to limited atonement, as all actually do save for Universalists!
     
    #145 Yeshua1, Aug 2, 2018
  6. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, for all believers, as this is a prayer for them. But you cannot conclude from this that Jesus did not care about all sinners, as Paul shows in 1 Timothy 2:1-6, where he says that were are to pray for ALL.
     
    #146 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  7. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    Calvin never believe in any limit on the death of Jesus Christ, as he says on Mark 14:24, which is in connection with the Lord's Supper, "Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race"
     
    #147 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  8. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    NOT from the Bible!
     
    #148 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  9. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    you say, "Whosoever wants to get saved will be", so you admit to human FREE WILL?
     
    #149 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Calvin held to the atonement was sufficient to save all sinners, but that God intended for it to save the Elect themselves!
     
    #150 Yeshua1, Aug 2, 2018
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Those whose desire is to get saved will be the elect of God, as He will regenerate them in order to have them desire and be able to come to Christ!
     
    #151 Yeshua1, Aug 2, 2018
  12. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    No he did NOT, check his commentaries on Mark 14:24, John 3:16 and Colossians 1:14, and you will see very clear language, like Jesus not dying for only a part of the world, but the whole human race, and His death was for "everyone without exception", and not the Calvinistic phrase, "without distinction", etc.
     
    #152 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  13. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    How can the lost sinners "desire" anything, because according to reformed theology, their wills are in bondage and they are dead and cannot respond? If the world of sinners can "desire to get saved", then they all must have freedom of choice.
     
    #153 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  14. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    to "freely reject Jesus", requires FREE WILL for then to do this!

    This Reformed theology is double-speak!!!
     
    #154 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Not knowing how his name is spelled and not knowing that he had been dead for 84 years when the 5 points were formulated are a pretty good indication he doesn't have a clue. You can deny that all you want but facts are facts.

    Just look at this thread. Trying to accuse every Particular Baptist of believing in the mythical "double predestination." Not to mention calling the sincerely held soteriological beliefs of other members "evil."
     
    #155 TCassidy, Aug 2, 2018
  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    ZOOOOOOOMMMM!!! Right over his head! LOL!
     
    #156 TCassidy, Aug 2, 2018
  17. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    We've been through this before. Calvin did not cast his theology in terms of limited or unlimited atonement. The key was predestination. Those after him made reasonable inferences about the outworkings of his doctrine as it applies to the extent of the atonement.

    Personally, I think unlimited atonement vs. limited atonement (and that's really an Anglo-American concept) means nothing and leads to endless speculation. Calvin believed that only those predestined to salvation, without any merit in themselves, will have eternal life. Put all the glosses on it that you will, but that is the core of his soteriology, not the speculative extent of the atonement.
     
    #157 rsr, Aug 2, 2018
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  18. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    if that is the case, then Calvin, like the Calvinists since his time, are equally not capable of rightly expressing what their beliefs really are. On John 3:16 he is very clear that Jesus died for the entire human race, and thereby opened the way to eternal life for them that repented. If his works say different elsewhere, this further proves the folly in this system known as Calvinism!
     
    #158 Saved-By-Grace, Aug 2, 2018
  19. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I'm not sure using "desire" changes anything. But let's go with it...

    de·sire
    dəˈzī(ə)r/
    noun
    1. 1.
      a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen.

    So God wished, hoped maybe, Adam would choose life??
     
    #159 steaver, Aug 2, 2018
  20. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    So are you saying God willed that Adam choose death?
     
    #160 steaver, Aug 2, 2018
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