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Featured Leadership Caring about members.

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Reynolds, Sep 16, 2018.

  1. HeDied4U

    HeDied4U Well-Known Member
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    I had this happen yesterday. I've been visiting a church the past few weeks, and while the people have been nice, they haven't been overly friendly. Well, after yesterday's service, they we having a luncheon down in one of the basement meeting rooms. I decided to wander down there and try out the jerk chicken (it was pretty good, by the way), but spent most of the time just standing around, kinda observing everyone else. I tried to engage a few people, with little success. After about 20 minutes, I just left. It was kind of depressing, all things considered.
     
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  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I can unsderstand that reasoning to some degree, as I was once a teaching Elder in the AOG local church, and had a time in my life back then when was really depressed over a girlfriend breaking up with me, and went 10 weeks from going to the church, and it was not untile that last week anyone phoned me to see how i was even doing!
     
  3. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Definitely does not make you feel real loved.
     
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I was an Elder, so hwo would they treat" normal laity?"
     
  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Exactly!
     
  6. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps there is some applicable guidance in the following:

    “Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:” (James 5:14).
     
  7. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Not exactly sure what you are getting at.
     
  8. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    The flock and the deacons have a responsibility. The pastor also has a responsibility. Both have duties and responsibilities. If the only thing a pastor is going to do is preach, why have him? You can put up a big screen at the front and live stream pastors who will preach 99% of local pastors under the table. If the pastor is not going to actively tend the flock, then I see no practical need for him.
     
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  9. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    The main aspect of his ministry is that of an *equipper*. That is a major misunderstanding (IMO) in the church. His responsibility isn't to simply preach the Word, but to disciple people into those who can disciple others. He should walk people through ministry so they can minister as well AND Train others, too.

    Eph. 4
    11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
     
  10. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Ok, if the body is not doing its job, is the equipper not properly equipping them?
     
  11. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Ephesians 4:16 (NET) From him the whole body grows, fitted and held together through every supporting ligament. As each one does its part, the body grows in love.

    Ephesians 4:16

    Each member should still do its part. So, yes/no :)
     
  12. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I thought on this more and a new question came to mind. Is church attendance in demise because of society in general, or is it in demise because the church has changed? Our county is "85% un-churches. 45 years ago, it was 80% churches. Did society cause this or did the churches cause this with their apathy and non-caring attitude? It seems that every adult I talk to who is not currently in church used to attend church. Some have an answer like "I know I should get back into church but....." Disturbingly, the vast majority say they have no intention of ever going back due to how they were treated when they were in church.
    Is the non-caring attitude of church leadership and church members the driving force behind church demise?
     
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  13. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I believe you are touching on some very important issues.

    You said, "Is the non-caring attitude of church leadership and church members the driving force behind church demise?"

    In other words--a lack of Christian Love. And yes, it is my opinion that many congregations (from what i've experienced) lack Love and care for one another. (And as stated earlier, that can be attributed to the leadership's lack of focus in this area.) Which will result in local assemblies "dying"--losing members, zero internal growth, zero growth as a body, etc.
     
  14. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I know this phrase has become cliche, but the problem is a lack of "relevance" of the church in our lives. The attempted solution has been to turn sermons into "self-help" guides and ministries into "social justice" outreaches. As someone who came to Christianity from the bottom of the barrel (criminal nihilism), that isn't really what "relevance" looks like.

    I hear old timers (apologies to anyone) talk about the old days when everyone in town went to church. Back then, church was probably also the center of COMMUNITY for those people. If you needed to talk about something, those were your "therapists" that would listen and go through it with you. When you met for an afternoon or evening out with the "girls" or with the "boys" those same people that you met with on Sunday were the people you went bowling with on Thursday or had a Saturday afternoon Tea with.

    That isn't about the Pastor visiting every home once a month.

    Church and community and people in general are very messy things. There are people who are mad at other people because someone didn't say something or someone did say something or someone might have done something. I have been a member of 3 churches over almost 40 years of Christianity and without a doubt the best part of each and every church has been the relationships with a minority of the attenders that spilled over to life outside Church Service. That is where I have sat with men whose wives had abandoned them. Where I got together to remove a tree that fell in a hurricane. Where I talked for hours over lunch at an all-you-can-eat restaurant while our children played together and sugared up on deserts. Where I chatted with a husband while my wife and mother-in-law talked with his wife who was very angry at the church.

    For a long time, I expected the church to provide that sort of friendship. These people are the mature Christians, what the heck do I know about anything ... I am a former thug. Eventually I figured it out. We were making this whole thing a lot harder than God ever intended it to be. EVERYONE wanted the exact same thing that I wanted and NO ONE knew how to make it happen. The secret turns out to be ... you make friends in church exactly the same way you make friends anywhere else. You ask. You stick out your hand, shake their hand and introduce yourself. You sit next to them and talk with them and get to know each other. You invite them out to lunch after church and share a meal and conversation together. You work at building a friendship.

    Church is supposed to be about "feeding the hungry" ... but that doesn't mean giving food boxes to the unsaved. The people are starving for TRUTH from the pulpit and LOVE from the body. That is the "ministry" that we really need to be working on if we want a "relevant" church.

     
  15. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Totally agree.

    We are to be ministers one to another, sacrificially giving our time and resources to each other. That means eating at each other's houses, helping each other out, and intentionally growing your love to one another by being together OUTSIDE of the box you meet in on Sunday.
     
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  16. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I've read that the sick are to call for the elders, not wait for the elders to call.

    Anyway, excuse or not, it's not a valid gripe. The living and relationship building happen outside the meeting.
     
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  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Could be but it also could be the apathy of the body.
     
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  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Why do you suppose such apathy exists? A few months ago, one of the adult life groups (SS class) had a member very sick in hospital. The leader sent out an e-mail that an offering would be taken the next Sunday for his family. The class had over 40 people show up and the offering was less than $25. The group leader kept sending out e-mails until he eventually got $100. I am not used to that. In the church I grew up in, if we took up a love offering, it would be several thousand. That is after the two church splits and the numbers falling to 70 to 90 per Sunday morning.
     
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    So apathy exists because there is no joy about their relationship with God. In my experience I believe it is a result of two primary things:

    1. Some of them are lost but think they are saved.
    2. Some of them are not serving God sacrificially (i.e. soul winning at a cost of sacrificing something from their lives) and therefore they are not seeing God work. Since they never see God work they have no testimony to have, hold and share. This effects the worship service, it effects the decisions of the church, it effects the love for each other.

    Now there is a lot more to #2 but that is it in a nutshell. Given everything you have said about your church I would say your options are the following:

    1. Pray for your church as Nehemiah prayed for Israel.
    2. Ask others in your church to pray for it as well. Start a prayer meeting in your home or in some space at church. Beg God to change your church. Pray without ceasing until you get an answer from God.

    Or:

    3. You can find another church and be careful before joining up to see if it has some spiritual health.
     
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  20. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Thanks. All points seem to be good advice. This church and the last church I was a member of both had spiritual health when I began to go to them. Then came rapid growth. As the numbers went up, the level of spirituality went down. In the last church, the number peaked and almost the instant the growth stopped, the demise came like lightning. In a 6 year period, the church went from 80 on Sunday to 400 + and then down to 60. The church I am at now has grown at about the same rate. It has almost peaked. The growth is now very slow. The growth is ALL youth. The adult numbers are actually very gradually in demise. New adults come in, but slightly more leave than come in. Because the total number is ever so slightly on the uptick, leadership is convinced all is well. If the youth pastor were to move on, it would go downhill instantly. He is in demand by many wanting him for a senior pastor.
     
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