Featured What is Total Depravity, part deux?

After that he is no longer an unbeliever. I'm not sure why you are being difficult here. Are you doing that on purpose?

 

I can honestly say, i'm doing my best to look at Scripture without any preunderstandings or presuppositions.

 

Eisegesis. Your application is unwarranted. Are you suggesting we just allegorize passages of Scripture because we think they point to our understanding of theology?

 

How is that a personal attack? i'm just explaining what we'd have to conclude if i believed the way you do.

Secondly, People who do not believe something can start believing what they previously did not. i'm not sure why that is such a difficult thing to understand? When someone who does not believe Christ rose from the dead for the forgiveness of their sin, believes, he then becomes a believer. He's no longer and unbeliever. Not hard.

 

You are missing a key factor--the Preached Gospel is the objective external factor that can bring about belief.

 

Right,

Romans 3:22
22And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

 

Ah, so you think "believe" in the Bible is some other word that really does not mean believe? My definition of believe is--yielding oneself to the truth presented and affirming it is True.

What is your definition of believe?

 

Am I the only one who sees no personal attacks here whatsoever? I see disagreement, statements being taken out of context, and the fruitless attempt at a productive debate. Does he misrepresent your position? Perhaps. Do you misrepresent his position? Indeed. That's not a personal attack; that is a misconception or an erroneous conclusion at best.

If this constitutes a personal attack, then you, my friend, are the proverbial "pot calling the kettle black."

 

I'm sorry folks but that's never the way it is in scripture. Let's look at Acts 14:6-10

They were ware of it, and fled unto Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and unto the region that lieth round about:And there they preached the gospel.And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. Acts 14:6-10

This verse is really loaded with good things it's hard not just to highlight it all. Notice,

1) the Gospel was preached

2) This man heard Paul speak

3) Paul perceived the man had faith to be healed

But hold it now notice something. Just because he had faith to be healed didn't make him healed. The man had to take it to the next step and act on his faith. Notice how Paul made him do that. When Paul perceived he had faith to be healed (sózó) and to be is future tense and this word healed here is the same greek word for saved....look what Paul did to get him to act on his faith,

Paul said with a LOUD VOICE, Stand upright on your feet! And he leaped and walked. Acts 14: 10

It's no different then the salvation of the spirit....just because one has faith to be saved (sózó) DOES NOT MEAN they're saved. They've got to act on their faith and that is by the action (verb) of believing. And how does one act on their faith and believe for salvation.....for with the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Rom 10:10

When you choose to say you identity with what Jesus did on the cross for you Heaven rejoices. That's the equivalent of standing upright on your feet and walking. So it's FAITH...but having faith doesn't mean you're saved. One must mix it with the action that only man can do...believe and choose to identify with Christ....confession is made ==>unto salvation.

 

You just allegorized Acts 12 and said it is a "picture of salvation".

 

The Gospel is used by the Holy Spirit to wake up and save the elect of God themselves.