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I Believe the Doctrine of Unconditional Election,

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Mar 10, 2018.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, but I do not see a real need to have a real free will either in this matter....
     
  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yeshua, Please define "a real free will".
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Someone who has no interal force that causes one to make decisions. such as a sin nature, or anyone who can be moved upon by a greater external force, such as God did upopn Paul. Only God Himself has real and absolute free will.
     
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yeshua, you can reason with God, He wants us to do that:

    Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
     
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, God wants to reason with those are called by His own name!
     
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  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Do you refuse to understand? God's election is wholly of God and has two parts. Before time 1 Peter 1:1-2. And for us in time 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14. God elects His elect through the setting apart by His Holy Spirit.

    The condition is stated throughout the New Testament. ". . . he that believes . . . shall be saved. . . ." It is belief in the truth then regeneration. Not regeneration then faith. The gospel call comes before one can hear. One must hear the truth in order to believe. One must believe (which is to be wholly without merit) prior to God regenerating the elect person in time. Anyone who thinks one's faith is a matter of merit does not understand the gospel of grace. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4; Matthew 7:21-23.) John 3:16, ". . . that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, . . ." That the elect believe is a condition wholly without merit on the part of His elect. Truth has to be heard in order to be believed. Once one truly undertands a truth is true, it cannot be denied. The God's elect who now believe now Know Him as Jesus prayed they should in order to have eternal life (John 17:3; 1 John 5:12; 2 Corinthians 13:5).
     
    #126 37818, Sep 30, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No, I do understand. And am trying to explain it to you.
     
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  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Regeneration, faith, and repentance happen simultaneously.
     
  9. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Is God unable to reason with any others?

    Which was Cain?
    He reasoned with Cain

    Genesis 4
    6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
    7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Do you not agree the election is wholly unmerited on the part of the elect (Ephesians 1:4)?
    ". . . But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. . . ." -- Romans 4:5.

    Do you deny faith in God's Christ is a condition in order to be saved (Acts 16:31)?
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Sanctification precedes the repentance which precedes the belief which is in order to be saved. Yes, it can happen in a very short order.
     
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    It appears you are conflating regeneration and salvation.
     
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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    From your point of view.

    Regeneration is when one is born from God (Mark 10:15; John 3:3; 1 John 1:5).
     
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  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All others are at war against Him!
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    regeneration proceeds faith, but flip side of same coin, as it appears to us to be at same time!
     
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  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yet He is willing to reason with them as with Cain?
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Did Cain accept the counsel of the Lord though?
     
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    No, That is not my point. The point is - is that He reasoned with Him.
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus reasoned with Judas though, and that got Judas what?
     
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