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Trump: I always want to tell the truth. When I can, I tell the truth

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Gold Dragon, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    If liberals favor abortion, they logically should favor euthanasia it seems to me. They shoot horses, don't they?
     
  2. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    I have already commented on this.

    Would it be fair to say that there are journalists on all parts of the political spectrum (right and left) who go out of their way to message/spin their writing and others who try their best to be fact based and unbiased even though it is impossible to ever be completely unbiased? That would be my position.

    The narrative I see in the media that has been reinforced by history is that those who are given power that is not kept in check by outside influences are the ultimate bad guys. The old adage "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". This has been true with power given to the emperors, kings, prime ministers, presidents, popes, pastors, CEOs, celebrities, scientists, reporters, soldiers, parents, doctors, PHDs etc. Historically in the USA and much of the western world, those in power have been white males but in other parts of the world they have been males of other skin tones.

    In your mind you see the main stream media, elites or liberals as that corrupted power and you are probably right that there is sometimes too much power given to some of those groups. But that doesn't mean that the right answer is to hand over that power wholesale to someone else just because they present an alternative. The idea of checks and balances built into the US constitution between the executive, legislature and judiciary were one of greatest historical developments in human history that has created a lot of the world we live in today. And then the 1st amendment articulated how important speech and the press were in keeping those in power in check. Trump's attacks on MSM, the judiciary, intelligence agencies, scientists and any dissenting/disagreeing voices, I see as an affront to everything that founding fathers wanted in their country. Having a right wing media that parrots the government's views is exacly how authoritarian governments operate. And as Hitler has shown, democracy is not immune to authoritarianism.

    The priest is abusing his position of authority to coerce his parishoners into voting the way he votes. It is fine that he voices his opinions as a private citizen recognizing that many of his parishoners will disagree with his view and vote differently. Putting the banner on his house or lawn is fine and allows him to fulfill his passion and sense of obligation about this issue. Putting it on his church is an inappropriate abuse of his power and position of authority. If the banner said "Vote pro-choice" would you support this priest's constitutional rights?

    Sure the article is biased against the priest who is clearly in the wrong here. This isn't about republican or democrat or pro-life or pro-choice. This is about abusing the power of his position.
     
    #42 Gold Dragon, Nov 7, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  3. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    The Dems will impeach your Hitler first of the year or they will be Hitler collaborators

    You are so totalitarian. The clergy are normal citizens and have the right of free speech. Canada controls speech in churches and I imagine Theresa May does also and I am guessing that Australia does, too. The lady in Santa Fe would agree with aborting the unborn child but she would probably be opposed to old ladies like her getting the axe when their healthcare becomes expensive--I mean, they shoot horses, don't they?.
     
  4. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Fair minded news coverage on controversial subjects may exist, but it might be better to cite a supposed example for analysis. Words can be weighty, a picture portray a thousand. What I notice are narratives designed to seduce emotionally, subconsciously. I expect opinion pieces to have some of this, but founded on solid argument. However, propaganda masquerading as news is a lie of the worst sort. It deserves its own disparagingly labeled category, something several notches below Mark Twain’s “statistics.” But for now, Fake News will do.
    It isn’t that I see “main stream media, elites or liberals as that corrupted power,” rather they are first and foremost part and parcel. Treating them as anything but is to be badly deceived. Justices, legislators, and executives are not more biased than pundits, professors, or publishers, and “the pen is mightier than the sword.” The latter is why authoritarian governments must control the media, and why all political entities alternately seek to use it to advantage and find need to defend against it.

    Publishers and producers do not get a pass, because they do not deserve one any more than politicians. (I decided against using an extended metaphor with used car salesmen.) The point is that everyone is human and everyone has a dog in the hunt. “The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.” If this all bursts your bubble, I don’t apologize. It needed bursting, big time. In any case, I’m not interested in living in it. I’m trying to practice what you preach, and doing at least as good a job.
    Thanks for responding to my request regarding the news story. Seems we agree that this one is obviously biased. I’d hoped for a bit more detail regarding all the ways the bias was embedded. But I mainly got the impression you feel the bias justified. That would be a problem, or the problem. Interpretation of the situation is an entirely different issue. You may have some good points there, though I probably mostly disagree with your assessment. We can discuss it in that thread.
     
  5. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    I have stated from the beginning, bias exists in all writing from all points of view. Nobody gets a pass. People who agree with my views have biases. People who disagree with my views have biases.

    Some writers try to get their biases out of the way of the story so that the truth can be seen despite their biases that they can never fully eliminate. But others make no attempts to remove their biases and force their readers to only see the world through their own lens. Critical evaluation of writing requires work to look into evidence and data that supports or refutes a position. Many folks are simply unable or unwilling to do that work. Most depend on the false assumption that if the source agrees with my view it is unbiased while if it disagrees it is biased. In this "5 second news cycle" world we live in, that is just easier than actual critical analysis that most don't have time for.
     
  6. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    You want government control of free speech a la British empire and the UK.
     
  7. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    If you were actually interested in what I want in this thread, I want people to think critically and find evidence about what we are reading, especially from sources that agree with our own view.
     
  8. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Hey, you said that the priest did not have the right to put a pro-life sign on the RCC church. Probably not in Australia. If the lady wanted abortion, did she also want euthanasia? Would she object to a sign calling for abortion on demand?
     
  9. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    The issue is not about his rights or that his sign is pro-life. He definitely has the right to put up a pro-life sign on his house and even speak publicly about pro-life issues. What is wrong (maybe not illegal) is his abuse of his position of authority to put his political view (whatever view that might be) on the church building and imply that God wants his parishioners to vote in line with his political view on that issue.

    I want us to think critically about this and every other story we see and not just support the person we identify with most.
     
  10. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    I am sure that in Australia that he would have been arrested and there is no doubt that Theresa May will have you arrested in the UK. However, we still have free speech in this country, at least on paper. Probably, in Australia, a Muslim cannot get up in a mosque and say that Mohammed had sex with a nine-year old girl. In the UK police state, Lauren Southern was stopped by the imperial government from handing out a tract that Allah is gay.

    Now if we could just CNN "reporters" to refrain from manhandling ladies.
     
  11. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Seems we agree on the general premise, just not on degree and angle(s), and probably starting points.

    I want to know not just what someone is telling me but why, and also what they’re not telling me and why. Anyone calling himself “Honest Jake,” especially the MSM, gets special scrutiny. And a straight white male warning of straight white males because they are straight white males deserves the severest of logical penalties, permanent removal from public discussion and debate. One has to wonder what right he thinks he has being there in the first place. He is certainly dangerously untrustworthy, but not because of those traits.

    As for the priest, the PhD, and the reporter, my point here is that it's not really a news story but propaganda. I understand your theory of the would-be honest reporter, but is he real, or more like Bigfoot? I’d need to see some hard evidence. “Honest Jake” just won’t cut it. Even weathermen hype the weather.
     
  12. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Does CNN have the right to strike White House employees as part of tree speech?
     
  13. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    You say you want people to think critically, but your assessment of the priest story seems lacking. On what basis is his action an abuse of power? You’ve demonstrated none. You would have to establish that there is no real freedom of religion, which may be true in Australia, and is certainly the way some want it in America, but is not yet so here. This is what I meant by us having different starting points. Just because you don’t like something or disagree with somebody does not mean you have the right to take away enumerated or implied rights. Are you not at least familiar with MLK?
     
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