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The Bible war.

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by 37818, Oct 25, 2018.

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  1. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Actually it goes back to a debate between Westcott And Hort (W&H) versus John Burgon (JB).

    This debate is contained (for the most part) in the Book The Revision Revised John Burgon, 1871.
    There are others...

    Free.

    The Revision Revised by John William Burgon

    Basically W&H felt that older is better (mss B and Aleph) shorter is better in that they felt the Byzantine priests/scribes embellished and conflated the "Traditional Text" (as Burgon called it) to smooth it out.

    JB had his own schema of authenticity.The Seven Tests of Truth found in The Traditional Text of the Holy Gospels.


    The Traditional Text of the Holy Gospels
     
    #121 HankD, Nov 19, 2018
    • Informative Informative x 2
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. KJVO came afterwords as a result of the unbilbical textual criticism.
     
    #122 37818, Nov 20, 2018
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    W. B. Riley stated in his book "The Menace of Modernism" (New York: Christian Alliance, 1917), the Modernist believes the Bible's "inspiration exists only in its ability to inspire...its interpretation is a matter of mental conscience." Dr. Riley goes on to say there were a group of men whom he describes as the "old conception," who believed the Authorized Version or King James Bible (hereafter AV) was inerrant. He states on page 11, "On this point we are inclined to think that, even unto comparatively recent years, such a theory has been entertained." He then ascribes this belief to ignorance, and says, "I think it would be accepted without fear of successful controversy that such fogies in Biblical knowledge are few, and their funerals are nigh at hand."

    Dr. Riley believed there were still a few of the "old conception" men in his day that still believed in an inerrant AV, that they were mostly old men, and were soon to pass away. If these men were old men when Riley wrote his book, they must have dated to at least the latter part of the 19th century. Over one hundred years ago, a group of "old conception" men existed who still believed in the inerrancy of the AV. This appears to indicate the "King James Only" position is not of recent origin.

    Thus we can see, in Riley's day, a group of men still existed who believed, "(1) the Bible was finished in heaven and handed down, (2) the King James Version was absolutely inerrant, and (3) its literal acceptance was alone correct." (Page nine of Riley's book as quoted by Dr. George W. Dollar in his book "History of Fundamentalism in America", Page 114) We can easily see that W. B. Riley (1861 - 1947), understood this group of men to believe exactly as the "King James Only" crowd does today, and believed it long before any of the contemporary antagonists were born!
     
    #123 TCassidy, Nov 20, 2018
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    But even Dean saw the obvious need to have both the Tr and the Kjv revised and updated!
     
    #124 Yeshua1, Nov 20, 2018
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  5. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Tes he admits that very early on in his book The Revision Revised,
     
    #125 HankD, Nov 20, 2018
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Wouldn't that be the Majority text?
     
    #126 Yeshua1, Nov 20, 2018
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There are many though who would disagree with you about the Critical text being bad and wrong!
     
    #127 Yeshua1, Nov 20, 2018
  8. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Sort of, but according to his writings (The Traditional Text) The Erasmus, Stephanus and Beza Greek New Testaments were representative of what he called the "Traditional Text". Elzivir came later, Scrivener much later.
     
    #128 HankD, Nov 20, 2018
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Which one of those would be the real perfect one then, by the Kjvo position?
     
    #129 Yeshua1, Nov 20, 2018
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Probably Scrivener (1894), compiled/distilled from the several Greek texts underlying the KJVO English.

    Other than that probably Stephanus although a Ruckmanite would discard them all.

    Actually I have read books and articles written by Ruckman in which he actually refers to the Greek (didn't say which one - probably Scrivener)!
     
    #130 HankD, Nov 20, 2018
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
     
    #131 37818, Nov 22, 2018
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Do any of the current Kjv version use that Greek text of 1894 for their base though?
     
    #132 Yeshua1, Nov 23, 2018
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    KJV yes for the most part and as far as I know (Cambridge, Oxford, Nelson; 1611-1769).

    NKJV:
    Though KJVO folks even here visiting the BB years ago claimed that the NKJV used Alexandrian readings (CT readings) which was proven false.

    What had happened is that the NKJV ENGLISH translation agreed with the ASV or RSV over a disputed choice of a word.

    KJV Acts 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

    ASV Acts 12:4 And when he had taken him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to guard him; intending after the Passover to bring him forth to the people.

    NKJV Acts 12:4 So when he had arrested him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of soldiers to keep him, intending to bring him before the people after Passover.
     
    #133 HankD, Nov 23, 2018
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Which would be the correct rendering!
     
    #134 Yeshua1, Nov 23, 2018
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I use the KJV. And "passover" is the correct translation. Did you know early English translation in the OT also had translated "passover" as "Easter?"
     
    #135 37818, Nov 25, 2018
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    IF the TR was wrong in some reading, should we not choice to use instead the more correct one from either the MT/CT?
     
    #136 Yeshua1, Nov 26, 2018
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The TR proves to be more often correct than the CT. Luke 4:4. 1 Timothy 3:16. John 3:13.

    Give 10 references where the CT has the correct reading over the TR.
     
    #137 37818, Dec 2, 2018
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  18. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 3:30 AM Pacific.
     
    #138 Squire Robertsson, Dec 2, 2018
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    1 John 5-17
    Shorter ending Nark
    John 8 woman caught in adultery
    Titus 2:3
    to name a few!
     
    #139 Yeshua1, Dec 3, 2018
  20. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    This thread is closed.
     
    #140 Squire Robertsson, Dec 3, 2018
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