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Featured Best One-Volume Systematic Theology?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Mikey, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    "I save" is active. "I am saved" or "I got saved" is passive, at least in the US. I'm not sure how it could be otherwise. For "get saved" to be active on either side of the ocean, it would have to take a direct object ("I save myself," or "I save George"), and it doesn't.
     
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  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I am saved, I was saved, I have been saved, or, best of all, Christ saved me :) all work for me. However, I'm happy to accept that you understand "get saved" to be passive, and that's fine.
     
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  3. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I asked you what the Gospel was. You said something about the death of Christ for sins, then directed me to Acts. You missed the Resurrection, which indeed, is preached all through Acts. (You really didn't think I had studied Acts thoroughly, having been a missionary for 33 years???)
    Suit yourself. I have nothing against you--just think you need a lesson in interacting on the Baptist Board. Don't ever go assuming someone is not being spiritual simply because they don't say things like you think they should.
    Same to you.
     
  4. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    None of you beloved Calvinists have yet figured out the point I've been making about 1 Cor. 15. Your replies have all missed the mark. But that's okay. This is not on the Cal/Arm forum, which I avoid like the plague (;)), and I have no brief to turn Calvinists into whatever I am.:D

    For the record, I have not been advocating preaching the epistles to lost sinners.
     
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    What did I miss? :)
     
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    My point was that in 1 Cor. 15, Paul was teaching what the substance of the Gospel was. So, as the Corinthians reached out with the Gospel, I believe what Paul taught them was what they were to do outreach out with.

    I may have made it clumsily, but this is a quite different argument from "Preach 1 Cor. to the lost." I admit that in trying to answer the arguments I may have left the impression that "Let the lost read Corinthians" was my primary point. It was not.
     
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I believe 1 Corinthians is correctional rather than instructional in its intent.

    In chapter 15 Paul is correcting their failure to understand the Resurrection. He states in verse 3 the Gospel he preached to them, making sure to include the Resurrection. But it seems clear to me that the "our" refers to the people of Corinth assembled together in that local church, not the entire population at large.

    As his remarks are correctional of the Corinthian Church, I don't see them as instructional as to what they should be preaching to the lost, but rather correctional as to what they themselves believed.

    He brings his primary intent into focus in verse 12 when he says "how can some of you say there is no Resurrection?"

    His use of the word "our" as being limited to believers here seems, in my opinion, to parallel his remarks in Romans 4:25 where he makes a similar statement when he says "Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification."

    If the "our" there is all inclusive, all people everywhere, without exception, rather than just referring to believers then are all people everywhere justified, as he does say He was raised again for "our" justification? :)
     
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  8. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for considering my point, Doc. And I'm sure if I tried to argue limited atonement with you, you'd walk all over me. But I will say, do you really think that "1 Corinthians is correctional rather than instructional in its intent"? In other words, you've been a prof, right? How is correction not a form of instruction? Is it really "either/or"?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Get the final revision of his, as that clears things up!
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I could agree with that Jesus died for our sins, but would not tell them died for your sins, as only God knows that!
     
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Pretty sure that's what I tried to read, unless the "final revision" is a real recent thing.
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I see both Calvinists and non cals trying to get the message of the Cross of Christ out to the lost, so lets not get bogged down into trying to decide if we are doing it the right way, as the Lord Jesus Himself told us to just get that message out to all sinners!
     
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Correction is aimed at those who are wrong. Instruction is for all. :)
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I am a strong Calvinist, but still do not see the need to be drawn into a contest of if we are teaching the same and right Gospel, as again, both you and I would agree upon what is to be taught and to whom regardless!
     
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  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Well, the idea of a "final revision" of the Institutes is a myth. Not only did Calvin not write the "final revision" he didn't write all of the earlier versions. Beza, Whittingham (Calvin's brother-in-law), and Knox contributed substantial portions, Beza being the real theologian of the group.

    We can see similarities between the latter revisions of the "Institutes" and Beza's "A Brief Declaration of the Chief Points of the Christian Religion Set Forth in a Table" published in 1613, 49 years after Calvin's early death at age 54. (Beza died in 1605, aged 86, but his above work was not published until 8 years later.)

    A lot of "Calvin" isn't "Calvin." :D
     
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  16. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    So correction is not a subset of instruction?
     
  17. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Do we correct those who are not wrong?

    The bible seems to make a distinction between the two.

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

    Doctrine (teaching) tells us what is right.

    Reproof tells us where we are not right.

    Correction tells us how to get right.

    Instruction tells us how to stay right. :)
     
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So Calvin only wrote in full his 1541 edition, and the 1559 was basically revised by others?
     
  19. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Please take this as an honest question: To hang your idea on the "our" of verse three is curious to me as Paul sets the context of the passage in v. 1 by addressing the Corinthians as "Brothers." Wouldn't we, by implication, have to say if the "our" is universal, than the "brothers" has to be as well? Wouldn't that point more to an idea of universalism?

    Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
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  20. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    No, I see no universalism in my approach. I see the Gospel presented in 1 Cor. 15 as a unit--a definition, if you will. So then if a Corinthian believer were to witness to someone about the Gospel, surely he would remember how Paul explained it, and explain it the same way, i.e., "Christ died for our sins."

    It's as if I said to everyone, "Brothers, in order to get into the room with the fried chicken, the password is "It is everyone's chicken." In that case, "Brothers" and "everyone" are not the same group.
     
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