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Featured Justification by faith, like Preterism, not in the creeds. But Biblical

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by asterisktom, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That is the Preterist view point. The plural pronoun "you," "ye" can also refer to others, not the immediate audience.. Two examples of this are: John 3:7 & Matthew 3:11-12.
    John 3:7, Jesus addresses Nicodemus with a singlar pronoun "thee" and switches to the plural "ye" meaning everybody.
    Matthew 3:11-12. John explains Jesus will immerse "you" plural, to be understood to be referring to both saved and lost. The saved with the Holy Spirit and the lost in the judgement, lake of fire.

    So the "ye" in Matthew 24:33 are understood to refer to those who see the events in Matthew 24:29.
     
  2. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    What really convinced me were the "this generation" passages. It just didn't make sense in the contexts that Jesus would be speaking of a race rather than a period of time. This coupled with His pronouncement in Matt. 16:

    "27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
    28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”


    The lame explanations that were offered finally just appeared unsatisfactory.

    "Some" is certainly the wrong word for a period of only 6 days. It is also the wrong word for 50 days (Pentecost). It would be embarrassingly trivial for our Lord to have meant that. No, a period of decades fits best. And that points to AD 70 as the only other option.

    Added to this I noticed the connection between Matt. 5:18 and Luke 21

    ""For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

    "31“So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. 32“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place. 33“Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away."


    Notice in Matt. 5:18 that up until the very time that "all is accomplished" every single part of the Law is in force (every "jot and tittle"). This points to one Law-ending event, at the same time as all being accomplished. There is certainly no possibility of a gap of 2000 years.

    In other words, those who insist that all is not yet accomplished must admit that we are still under the Law, in all of its force and minutiae.

    Other clinchers were the 19 "in that Day" passages in Zechariah and how they were referenced in the New Testament, showing that all of these spoke about one period in time, the first century, not two disparate periods separate by almost 2000 years.

    There were other clinchers, notably many of the passages from Hebrews which I was teaching through at the time, but this will do for now.
     
    #42 asterisktom, Dec 10, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
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  3. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Hmm. A left-handed blessing if ever there was one!:Cautious
     
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  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    My view has been the same ever since I was saved Nov. 22, 1978. It's based upon believing Scripture LITERALLY AS POSSIBLE & realizing that what symbolism there is in Scripture always represents something or someone literal. And it's based upon COMMON SENSE, easily seeing the prophesied eschatological events simply haven't yet happened. No rockes science needed to see that !

    By a STRICT definition of preterism, which means "pertaining to the past", a FORM of "partial preterism" is true. But this isn't really part of the preterist doctrine. Let's look a little at Jesus' Olivet Discourse in Matt. 21:

    Matt. 24:1 Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”

    This cameta pass in 70 AD, ^ truly there's not one stone of the old temple left upon another. The Romans pried them apart, believing there was gold hidden between those stones.

    matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many"

    We know this has been going on ever since Jesus was physically here!

    Matt. 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

    This has come to pass. and , as science has progressed, the wars have become more intense as more=destructive weapons are developed, and more nations are finding fault with other nations. And such diseases as AIDS & ebola have come upon the scene.

    Matt. 24:9 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12 Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold.

    This has come to pass. In many nations, it's not safe to profess to be a Christian. And much of the world has come to accept sexual perversion of many sorts to be "normal", and "polotical correctness" has replaced Biblical morality. Yes, the "new normal" is quite godless!

    But after those verses, Jesus' words are about still-future events, such as the "abomination of desolation" & the great trib. That "Discourse" in a brief overview of the course of events. Daniel, Paul, and later Jesus Himself again, in the revelation, go into more detail about the coming "beast" & his sidekick the false prophet, the actual events of the great trib, & the glory & majesty of Jesus' physical return.

    Obviously, we are in the middle of the stream of these events, with the "grand finale" around the corner. To say they've already happened is JUST PLAIN SILLY! Wher EVIDENCE do these prets have to support that goofy view? ABSOLITELY NONE! The world has gone right on since 70 AD, same as it did in earlier times. Preterism is just another silly & false man-made doctrine,
     
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  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Yrouble is, you likely didn't read a reputable world history book as well, and/or you've failed to heed Scripture LITERALLY.

    There's simply NO historical evidence supporting preterism for the occurrence actual eschatological events.

    NO coming of the "beast" - man of sin
    NO new Jewish temple
    NO marka the beast
    NO abomination of desolation
    NO great trib
    And certainly, NO physical returna Jesus, seen by ALL!

    Inother words, preterism is bankrupt !
     
  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    But you've missed the BIGGEST CLINCHER against preterism -

    THE EVENTS SIMPLY HAVEN'T YET OCCURRED ! !

    There's NOTHING you can substitute for the physical return of Jesus in the manner HE HIMSELF prophesied!

    It simply HASN'T YET HAPPENED ! !

    Only GOD can make something from nothing, but that's just what prets are trying to do. There's simpmy NO evidence supporting their view, but they're constantly, like KJVOs trying to invent evidence outta nothing.

    TIME TO LET IT GO & REALIZE IT'S NOT TRUE!
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 16:28; Mark 9:1; & Luke 9:27 I have always understood Jesus was speaking of some of His disciples who would see His transfiguration. Matthew 17:1-9. Mark 9:2-8. Luke 9:28-30.
     
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I believe that's correct, as He VERY-OBVIOUSLY has NOT returned yet in the manner He prophesied himself.

    This also ties in with Jesus meaning "people or race" when He used the word "genea".
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We shall exist in the same form of glorification as jesus Himself, which was His physical body being gloried, but it was a physical not a spiritual resurrection!
    And we get that on the Second Coming day!
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We still are waiting for the Second coming, for the time when mortality take son immortality, and when we shall become as to our bodies as Jesus now is!
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I would have to disagree, in that I understand the generation in Matthew 24:34 refers to those who see the evens of Matthew 24:29; Matthew 24:33.
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Those still alive when the future second coming happens will see those events...
     
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  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    That's a very-possible scenario!

    But what's NOT possible is that He physically returned during the generation alive while He was here before.
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    When jesus returns, it will be world wide known event, as history as we know it is changed forever, and not an invisible JW type event!
     
  15. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    You have believed the same thing for 40 years and 17 days. Haven't changed at all? Is that a good thing?
     
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  16. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    So, if this is true then, what?, the race will pass away when Christ comes? What about your 1000-year reign and the Jews sacrificing and circumcising, etc.?
     
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  17. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    OK, 37818 (I feel as if I know you a little better. Can I just call you 3?), does it not seem strange for Jesus to say, in essence, "Some of you will be alive six days from now"?
     
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  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Simply, it had not happened.
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That was not the essence what He said. The transfiguration is what Jesus was in fact referring to.
     
  20. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    YERP!

    What was false doctrine then is still false doctrine now!
     
    #60 robycop3, Dec 10, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
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