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Featured Eternal Subordination of the Son. Biblical?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Mikey, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Father -Son implies one exits before another and that God who became flesh is subordinate to God the Father.
    He was God. He was flesh.
    We too are spiritual beings(not God though) as while we are fleshly beings.
     
  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Technically speaking the Father-Son relationship did not exist before the incarnation UNLESS the term begotten of the Father implies that relationship in eternity.

    From my point of view "Begotten" does not imply subordination but is a descriptive word of a coequal relationship.

    That is the Son (Logos) emanates from the "bosom" (innermost being) of the Father. An eternal relationship.
    bosom kolpos Liddell Scott:23019 bosom, womb.

    The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (and the Son).
     
  3. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    We have to consider the thee as co equal GOD.

    and we must be careful not to imply that Jesus is created or a lessor God as many do.
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Eternal Sonship while an extra Biblica! term like Trinity, has always been true and has no cause.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, Jesus became subordinate to the Father while here Incarnated, but did he not receive back His full glorify when ascended, and thus no longer subordinate?
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There is the eternal Sonship of jesus...
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He was eternally begotten of the Father, correct?
     
  8. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    nope, please explain their relationship before Jesus was human?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Eternally both were God!
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    In the incarnation the Word, who being the Son of God became (John 1:14) part of His creation in becoming fully man. He in doing so He did not cease being fully God (John 1:9-10; Hebrews 1:3).
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Think. The Son of Cod is Himself uncaused and He being the sole cause of all caused things (John 1:3).
     
  12. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Was Jesus a son before being human?
     
  13. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Was He a son to the Father before being human?
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. John 1:2. John 1:18.
     
  15. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    neither verse says what you suppose.

    He was not a son nor the Father a father until God became the son as a human.

    He was God and existed with God yet was separate same as the Holy Spirit.
    Unity yet a individual
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    John 1:2 say He was "with God." John 1:18 says He is the Son. He being who appears for the invisible God, BTW.
     
  17. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    both are true. His sonship as a human shows He is a son of God having no earthly father.

    The purpose of being a human son is not to mean He was a son to the Father in Heaven
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You are wrong. ". . . But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. . . ." -- Hebrews 1:8. ". . . Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom [is] a right sceptre. . . ." -- Psalms 45:6. ". . . Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth?
    what [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?" -- Proverbs 30:4. So the man Jesus said of Himself, ". . . And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven. . . ." -- John 3:13.
    ". . . No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].. . ." -- John 1:18. Genesis 12:7 for example. All appearances of God were none other than the Son of God. So what Jesus said in His humanity as recorded in John 14:6 was true before His incarnation. John 8:24. 2 John 1:9. 1 John 4:9.
     
    #58 37818, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  19. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Does the Holy Spirit proceed from the Father and the Son or does it proceed from the Father through the Son?

    at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear; Acts 2:33 YLT
    “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. NKJV

    And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:16,17 KJV
    Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7 KJV
     
    #59 percho, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  20. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Depends on your point of view.

    Does the sun rise or does the earth spin on its axis giving that impression.?

    My understanding is that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son although the Greek church says the Father.
     
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