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Featured Is it heretical to say that you must repent to be saved?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Cavell, Jan 7, 2019.

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  1. Cavell

    Cavell Member

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    My wife bought me a study bible that had a man called Ray Comfort's study in, it is called the evidence bible. I googled Ray Comfort and there were a lot of posts about how he is heretical.

    The Bible PLAINLY defines "turning from their evil way" as works! Ray Comfort defines repentance to mean "turn from your sins", which is another way of saying "turning from your evil way"! Ray says one must turn from their sins and put faith in Jesus to be saved. Ephesians 2:8-9 declares:

    "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

    This is a link to one of the sites that talks about it : The damnable heresy of Ray Comfort, John MACARTHUR, and JACK CHICK<br />

    I guess repenting and having a baptism are works. So it could be seen as heretical to say you must repent to be saved. Although, I am not sure. What do you think?
     
    #1 Cavell, Jan 7, 2019
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Repentance precedes faith (Mark 1:15). But to teach faith then repentance in order to be saved is indeed a false teaching of faith plus works. Church of Christ, Mormanism and yes, some Protestants and Baptists.
     
    #2 37818, Jan 7, 2019
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I wouldn't say that it is heretical. Sometimes we rely on a type of reasoning that does not always work with Scripture.

    It seems to me that a more biblical view than one must repent in order to be saved is simply Christ's command to "repent and believe the gospel" (Mark 1:15). Here I think what must occur is plainly laid out. But what if "repent and believe" are one thing (as I believe they are) which is summed up as "faith". I believe repentance and belief are two sides of the same coin. One turns from one way to another. Repentance and belief are not works (as Paul refers to a "work" as being works of the Law), but the inclination of one's heart (which, as James notes, produces works).

    Anyway, that's how I understand the issue.
     
    #3 JonC, Jan 8, 2019
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  4. Cavell

    Cavell Member

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    Hmm so I am saved but I have at times in my life believed it necessary to repent, not for the sake of my salvation though. However, if a christian believed they need to repent for a sin for the sake of their salvation that is wrong of them ?
     
    #4 Cavell, Jan 9, 2019
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The forgiveness we receive is full and complete, Jeremiah 31:34; Hebrews 10:17. But for daily cleansing > 1 John 1:9.
    BTW, only those who do not get their name sealed in the book of life perish (1 John 5:4-5; Revelation 3:5; Revelation 20:15; Revelation 21:7-8). The promise to those born of God is that their name will in no way be blotted out, Revelation 3:5.
     
    #5 37818, Jan 9, 2019
  6. Cavell

    Cavell Member

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    #6 Cavell, Jan 9, 2019
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    How do little childern have there name in the booK (Mark 10:14-15)? Their name is already their. That is why Jesus told Nicodemus, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3. The elect, those who are saved had their names in the book before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4), why would they not? The promise is not to have one's name blotted out, Revelation 3:5.
     
    #7 37818, Jan 9, 2019
  8. Cavell

    Cavell Member

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    I don't believe in predestination
     
    #8 Cavell, Jan 9, 2019
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    So you do not believe the reason God saves you is so you will be made into the image of God's Son? (Romans 8:23; Philippians 3:20-21; Romans 8:29).

    I am not a Calvinist. I believe Jesus died for whole world (1 John 2:2) and for that reason everyone's name is in the book. So Christ having died for all (2 Corinntians 5:14) secures salvationn for His saved and Judgement for the lost (Romans 14:9; Romans 8:34; Romans 14:11).
     
    #9 37818, Jan 9, 2019
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Just what does it mean "to repent"? (metanoia)

    Metanoia Liddell Scott 26089 To change one's mind; Friberg 03403 To change one's mind.

    Its not so much something we do but something that happens.

    We have a change of mind: Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
     
    #10 HankD, Jan 9, 2019
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  11. Cavell

    Cavell Member

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    From what you have said I think you are at least a one point Calvinist.
     
    #11 Cavell, Jan 11, 2019
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Using the five points of Calvinism.
    Total depravity or the inability of the lost to save themselves do to sin.
    Romans 3:11.
    I disagree with unconditional election. I do hold the election is unmerited. John 3:16.
    I belive in the general redemption, in that Christ died for all.
    2 Corinthians 5:14; 1 John 2:2; Romans 14:9-11.
    That Christ will either be one's Savior or one's condemning Judge, Romans 8:34.
    I do not believe in irrestable grace.
    The grace of God can be resisted, Titus 2:11.
    I do believe the perseverance of the saints. those whom God saves He keeps, John 10:27-29.

    So that would make me a two pointer.
     
    #12 37818, Jan 11, 2019
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  13. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree with their definition.

    I agree with yours.
    God changes the mind...we don't change it ourselves.;)
     
    #13 Dave G, Jan 11, 2019
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  14. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I believe it is heretical ( attempts to divide the body of Christ with a false teaching ) to state that a person must first repent to be born again.
    Repentance follows the change of heart ( Acts of the Apostles 2:37-38 )...it does not and cannot precede it.

    That is God's work, all of it... including belief, repentance, faith and good works.
    For someone to state that a person must "repent and believe" to be saved, I would have to question them further...

    On the one hand, belief, repentance, faith and good works are evidence, that must be present to be one of the saved.
    They are necessary "ingredients".
    On the other, to make them all "prerequisites", is false and gives people the impression that they must do these things before they can be found in God's grace.

    To me, that is the heart of religious works...


    Doing something to inherit the gift of eternal life.:Frown
     
    #14 Dave G, Jan 11, 2019
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Even in the Active, Imperative? :)
     
    #15 TCassidy, Jan 11, 2019
  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Wouldn't that require a passive voice verb?
     
    #16 TCassidy, Jan 11, 2019
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Now that you mention it - yes - because though the origin of the action appears to comes from me it was actually given to me.

    You know like in the military :)

    Luke 7:8 For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
     
    #17 HankD, Jan 11, 2019
  18. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Are you being "Greek" again? ;)
    I actively repent because God changed my nature.

    So, yes, that would require a passive voice verb if God caused me to repent.
    However, if He granted me repentance, then I passively received the ability to actively repent.:)
     
    #18 Dave G, Jan 11, 2019
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  19. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Again, I like this.:Cool
    God being the giver, is shown in many places.

    James 1:17
    John 3:27
    1 Corinthians 4:7
    ...others.
     
    #19 Dave G, Jan 11, 2019
  20. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    We are beginning to sound like politicians.
     
    #20 HankD, Jan 11, 2019
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