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How did you discover the Bible teaches a pre-trib rapture?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 37818, Jan 16, 2019.

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  1. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    This was one of the confusing points for me, too. I understand dispensationalism, but to say that there is a time period after the resurrection of Christ that, once saved, does not place believers into the Body of Christ, just does not make sense to me.
     
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  2. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    I was always just taught this when I was younger, The more I read the Bible, talked to people, read books, debates (especially Tommy Ice) , etc. I realized it just wasn't there.
     
  3. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    1Th 1:10

    And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
     
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  4. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I accepted it from pastors I heard teaching it when I was a young believer.
    Then about 15 years ago, I started testing all the teachings I'd been subjected to, to Scripture itself.

    The more I read, the more I became convinced that Matthew 24 and Mark 13 is the timeline for all things "rapture-related".
    The church will be here through the 3.5 years, and will suffer many losses as Satan is given the power to make war with the saints and to overcome them...believers will be put to death for not taking the mark.


    Then at the last trump, when first, the dead in Christ shall rise, we which are alive and remain shall meet the Lord in the air.:)
     
  5. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Believers are the church.;)
     
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  6. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    I liked that book so much I moved on to Satan is Alive and Well on Planet Earth and The Terminal Generation.
     
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  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Second appearing (Hebrews 9:28). I understand to be after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; Acts of the Apostles 1:9-11; Titus 2:13).
     
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  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Biblical. Dispensational in that there is a distinction between saved Israel in the church and the church. The Apostle Paul makes the distinction (Romans 1:16, "to the Jew first"; Galatians 6:16 "them . . . and . . . the Israel of God.". And the Jerusalem, the bride of Christ consists of Israel and the church, Revelation 21 )
     
    #28 37818, Jan 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    1 Thessalonians 4:17, "shall be caught up." and "angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Matthew 24:31.

    Well, as I understand Hebrews 9:28 and 1 John 3:2, this happens that He shall "appear a second time." His first appearing being that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many." There is no middle appearing, unless you want to count Stephen (Acts of the Apostles 7:56) and Saul (1 Corinthians 15:8). The difference being they saw Christ in His glory. Where as when Christ ascended to be our mediator (Hebrews 9:24), He did so once and for all (Hebrews 9:12) until He makes his second appearing (Hebrews 9:28.) So there is no middle coming.

    There remains the church God's temple made up of us believers and then there are the local churches. The term translated "church" is not even used in Revelation 21.

    An evangelistic crusade can be regarded as a non regular church meeting.
    As for Revelation 14:13, there is also Revelation 7:9-14 and those mentioned in Revelation 20:4.
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, but partial preterism is as false as full preterism.
    Proof: Jesus said, in Matt. 24:29-30 that IMMEDIATELY AFTER the great trib, there'd be a great cosmological disturbance, during which He will return. So, it's obvious that the trib hasn't yet happened.

    And I agree with what John of Japan said. The church isn't mentioned in most of the Revelation, and also God said He'd keep His saints out of it.(With the exception of the trib saints & the 144K Israelis, plus the 2 special witnesses.) And Jesus said He'd return at an hour when men think not.

    However, I plan to keep living as if He may return any minute, as for each of us, He is no further away than THE NEXT HEARTBEAT...
     
  11. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Beware of people who say "Jesus said" and then write what they want Him to have said.
     
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  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Me too. Wasn't there another one besides these three?
     
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    <land promises>
     
    #33 kyredneck, Jan 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  14. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Might have been. I forget. After him I "graduated" to Chuck Missler and then Rosenthal.

    And another author who taught that the Antichrist (sic) was a resurrected Hitler!
     
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  15. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    To begin with, I agree wholeheartedly with your last line. Live as if He may return any moment, as His return could truly be any time. No big surprise I'm sure, but I think the "futurist / dispensationalist" view is completely wrong.

    In Matthew 24, Jesus did not say there would be great cosmological disturbances. He is using symbolic language, which is pretty common in the Bible. For instance, in Ezekiel 5:5-13, God says "I will do among you the like of which I will never do again". This was regarding destruction of Jerusalem. Here, prophetic language is used to emphasize what the Lord was about to do. As you know, the Jews resorted to cannibalism during the Jewish War (AD 66-70), yet famine was described in the Ezekiel passage. Prophetic language is also used in Isaiah 13:6-16. If taken literally, you would think the sun would have been dark when it rose and other cosmological disturbances. That did not happen. Heavenly bodies often symbolize earthly rulers and events.

    The tribulation was not worldwide, but only form Jerusalem. Jesus did return in AD 70 - but this was not the "2nd Coming". This was a "coming" in judgment in the same way that God "came" in judgment upon the nations (including Israel) in the Old Testament. To me, it's obvious that all the events prophesied in the Olivet Discourse happened by AD 70, and most of the events in Revelation have also already happened.
     
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  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Pre tribers becoming orthodox preterist is understandable. So the following is a side question: What specifically persauded you to the orthodox preterist position? Thanks.
     
  17. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Hmm...never heard of those...any good?
     
  18. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    A simple question with a complicated answer. I started questioning the "End Times / Rapture" view in the early 90s (just after I returned from the Gulf War). However, I wasn't sure what to make of those passages. I ran across Gary DeMar's teachings on YouTube, and they made sense to me. I realized that I had only been taking the word of the "prophecy experts" and reading their view into Scripture to make it fit. I started studying the Bible more critically, comparing Scripture with Scripture, trying to see what the author meant and how his original audience understood it.

    A "new" reading of the Olivet Discourse convinced me that this was not the end of the world, but the end of the old covenant system with the destruction of Jerusalem. The "time indicators" were a big revelation for me. Jesus said "when you see", not "when they see". The prophetic passages use language to indicate the events were "near" for their original audiences. I apologize for the lengthy response. My wife says that I can take all day to say what she could in two minutes.
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It seems the reason most, if not all of us, were pre trib was because by whom or where we were lead to receive Christ as Savior, the pre trib view was taught to be the Biblical view. (1 John 4:6, ". . . heareth us . . . .")
     
  20. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. For many years, I didn't even know there were other views.
     
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