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Featured How "theological" should a sermon be?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Mikey, Jan 17, 2019.

  1. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Not so - in this respect.. I am divided about Calvin vs Arminius and refuse to give allegiance to either.

    First and foremost we are NOT to do this - I am of Apollos, I am of Cephas... etc

    Secondly these ideas came centuries after Christ. True a clear definition of Trinitarian teaching took centuries to develop, however apart from Athanasius and Arius, no one says I follow "Athanasius" or "I follow Arius".

    C vs A has split the church with a near mortal blow.

    Thank you but I am no Stalin nor do I want to murder.
     
  2. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Respectfully, I disagree. Yes. Calvinism vs. Arminianism has created a schism within the Church. That should be obvious to all who know anything about the debate. C&A has split some local churches. But when it comes to the big "C" church, I think the debate continues to be worthwhile. The truth should never be avoided. It deserves a forum. Now, how we debate is worth discussing. I recently reacted viscerally in another thread to an individual who created that thread for the sole purpose of furthering division. That type of debate only serves to throw red meat to one's own starving dogs. Both sides are guilty of that. But when Calvinists like James White have formal debates with Arminians such as Michael Brown, they provide a worthwhile service to the body of Christ. The theology and ideas of both positions are fleshed out, which allows observers to decide for themselves.
     
  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    But if both are wrong as some believe then nothing good can come of it which I believe has been proven here and in several other venues of Christian debate.

    Bottom line IMO is - it is forbidden, "I am of Apollos, I of Cephas..."
     
  4. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Then it comes down to a matter of conviction, does it not?
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No one asked you to give allegiance to stuff you do not believe. The idea is to give your views as to what you believe. People who mask their beliefs to gain favor are behaving like Stalin. No one said that shoe fits you.

    We should preach the truth and where scholars disagree we should present our view, but clearly present that others hold a very different view. We worship the truth.
     
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    No, don't do it.
     
  7. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    It seemed you made a blanket statement which included me - my bad if I was wrong :)
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    And my bad if my blanket was too broad. :}
     
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  9. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Do not do what? I am convinced that the Calvinist understanding of soteriology is correct. All we can do in the pursuit of truth is to obey our conscience. You seem to be convinced that neither the Calvinist or Arminian position is correct. That is your conviction. I would attempt to persuade you to change your mind, but in the end, you must obey your conscience.
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    My first objection to C which I have aired several times here is the "T" of TULIP.

    Total Depravity. - We are made in the image and likeness of God - Is the image of God in us depraved?
     
  11. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I believe you misunderstand what it means to be made in the image and likeness of God. We are made in God's image in that we are moral creatures. Adam was created without sin but with the ability to sin. Once Adam sinned he was placed under the curse (Genesis 3:3). While still a moral creature, Adam's morality was now flawed. Whereas it is impossible for God to sin, Adam had sinned. Adam's sinful choice impacts his posterity. Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned. How else do explain the fact that the natural man (the sinner) is incapable of understanding the things of the Spirit of God without divine intervention (1 Corinthians 2:14)?
     
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Nice apologetic brother but in my opinion it misses the mark.

    We still retain His image and we should honor that in each and every man.

    James 3
    8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
    9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

    IMO to label someone in an elitist way is to brand (curse - kataraomi) them.

    kataraomi - Liddell Scott - to utter an imprecation, malediction.

    Yes, I am guilty, BIG TIME.
     
  13. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    So, we disagree. That is my point about studying for yourself and being true to your conviction. It is much better than another poster who was making "slam dunk" pronouncements if anyone dared disagree with him.
     
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  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    How else do explain the fact that the natural man (the sinner) is incapable of understanding the solid food things of the Spirit of God without divine intervention (1 Corinthians 2:14)? (1 Corinthians 3:1-3)
    Notice that the men of Matthew 23:13 were in the process of entering the kingdom, demonstrating the "T" (total spiritual inability) is off the mark.
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The actual biblical doctrine taught in 1 Corinthians 2:14 to 3:3 is that the natural man (unregenerate person) has Limited Spiritual Ability, able to understand and respond to "milk" (the fundamentals of the gospel) but not "meat" or "solid food" the spiritual things learned only with the help of our indwelt Spirit.
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We are different that what Adam was before the Fall in that regards!
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You totally misunderstood Paul, as his point was that natural/unsaved sinners understand nothing about theological/spiritual things of God, and those who were saved are either babes in Christ on milk, or else mature on meat!
     
  18. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    That's not an answer to my question
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Why make bogus assertions? Why claim I misunderstood Paul? Paul spoke to them as "men of flesh" using milk. Thus natural men, unregenerate men can understand milk, the fundamentals of the gospel.
    This supports the idea of preaching the gospel to the lost, rather than making a mockery of it.

    The actual biblical doctrine taught in 1 Corinthians 2:14 - 3:3 is that the natural man (unregenerate person) has Limited Spiritual Ability, able to understand and respond to "milk" (the fundamentals of the gospel) but not "meat" or "solid food" the spiritual things learned only with the help of our indwelt Spirit.
     
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