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The Nature of "called" in 1 Cor. 1:26-31

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Biblicist, Jul 23, 2017.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hi Gregg, when you are peddling flawed product, you change the name every so often. Irresistible grace alters those unable to hear and affirmatively respond to the "call" of the gospel. Ditto for "effectual call." Another name is "gift of faith" but the same idea, the lost are unable to place their faith in Christ until altered supernaturally such that they cannot avoid trusting in Christ. Three names, same bogus view found nowhere in scripture.

    Several Greek words are translated as call, called, and so forth. One meaning is to call or beckon or invite, such as when we preach the gospel to the lost. Another meaning is to name someone or something, such as I am called Van. Yet another meaning is to designate, such as God designating Paul as His apostle to the Gentiles. Lastly, a very important meaning with regard to salvation is to be "called" such as "called out of darkness into His marvelous light." This refers to when a person is transferred from the realm of darkness (in Adam so to speak) and into Christ. This change is called positional sanctification. The lost are not in Christ and spiritually dead, but when they are transferred into Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit, they are made alive together with Christ.

    So in our passage, 1 Corinthians 1:26-30, calling refers to our being positionally sanctified, transferred spiritually into Christ. This choice to "give" us to Christ is our individual election for salvation. And when given, we spiritually transferred to Christ, we arrive in Christ, and Christ promises not to cast us out.
     
    #41 Van, Feb 4, 2019
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  2. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    The UNSAVED don't call on the The Lord. :


    Psalms 14:4

    Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge?

    who eat up my people as they eat bread,

    and call not upon the Lord.


    The psalms are full of examples of calling on The Lord.

    One interesting thing we learn about calling on The Lord is , God must change a mans heart before calling on The Lord is possible ! :


    Psalms 80:18

    So will not we go back from thee:

    quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.


    Men MUST be made alive BEFORE they will call upon The Lord !

    Once God has made men alive, the natural thing was for men to call upon The Lord.


    This fits perfectly with the Romans 10 passage Men believe in their HEART, are made alive and righteous , then they NATURALLY will call upon The Lord.


    Romans 10:10

    For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


    Romans 10:13

    For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
     
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  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hi Forever Settled,

    First look at Psalm 14:5. Did not some seek refuge with God? Of course they "called" on the Lord for help.

    Psalm 80:18, here they are asking to God to revive them, saying revive us and we will call upon your name. Regeneration as occurs in the New Covenant is nowhere in view.

    Romans 10:10-13 indicates whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Sounds like going "all in" for salvation in the name of Christ.

    The premise of your post, a person must be "regenerated" in order to put their faith and devotion in Christ is false. Nowhere in scripture can that doctrine be found. To claim a person could be united with Christ, and be made alive, before Christ suffered and died on the cross is without merit.

    Consider this, we are" saved by grace through faith." Now when a person enters a room through a door, first they pass through the door, then into the room. So our faith (when credited by God as righteousness) provides our access to the grace by which we are saved. Romans 5:2 All this regeneration before faith stuff is nonsense.
     
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Gregg T,
    From the Banner of Truth;
    Effectual Calling | Banner of Truth USA
    There are two kinds of call in Scripture. First there is a general call which is addressed to all: ‘Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man’ (Prov. 8:4). Christ, who is wisdom personified, addresses all mankind demanding repentance, faith and holiness. Jesus states, ‘Many are called, but few are chosen’ (Matt. 22:14). This speaks of a call much wider than the elect. It is addressed to many, to millions across the world and in every age. It is the call of the gospel, Repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. The prophet Isaiah transmits it: ‘Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else’ (Isa. 45:22). John ends the book of Revelation with it: ‘The Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely’ (Rev. 22:17).The Holy Spirit says to all, Come and drink of salvation. This first call is the universal call of the gospel from God through men to every human being to come for salvation.

    The second call is addressed only to the elect and only at the point of conversion. To begin with they too hear only the common call, but then a time comes when that call becomes the effectual call. It is effective and comes with such power that it cannot be resisted. All who are effectually called are saved. Paul refers to it when he writes: ‘For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified’ (Rom. 8:29-30). All whom God foreloved, whom he loved before they were created, he predestinated to be like Jesus. And all whom he predestinated he called, and all whom he called he justified, and all whom he justified he will certainly glorify. He actually uses the past tense for that which is future to emphasise how certain it is. The chain from electing love to heaven is unbreakable. All who are in the elect are called in this way and only them. Peter also writes of this effectual call in his first Epistle when he encourages Christians, ‘that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light’ (1 Pet. 2:9).

    N


    Here is a link to the 1689 confession of faith;
    1689 LBC: Chapter 10: "Of Effectual Calling"
     
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  5. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    Regeneration is a big term that means different things depending on who you ask.

    Cannot

    Jesus says: "A corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit,

    and first make the tree good and the fruit will be good.


    And coming to plain language, he says: "No man can come to me except the Father who hath sent me draw him, and repeats, No man can come to me except it were given him of my Father.


    Here is both depravity and impotency too plainly taught for contradiction.


    John iii. 3 says ye cannot see;


    Jn vi. 44-65 says they cannot come;


    Jn viii. 43 says they cannot hear;


    Jn xii. 39 says they cannot believe;


    Rom. viii. 7, 8 says they cannot be subjected to the law of God, and they cannot please God;


    1 Cor. ii. 14 says they cannot know God;


    So the enabling, quickening power of God must come to them, "even while they are dead in trespasses and sins......otherwise they CAN DO NOTHING.

    Are you saying a sinner Can hear...come .......see....bear good fruit...believe....can please God....can know God..... ?

    You say one thing Jesus is saying something different.
     
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  6. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Sure it can:

    " And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard [us]: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul." ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 )

    I don't have any trouble seeing it, but it wasn't always clear to me.


    Question:
    Does a person believe because they are born again, or do they trigger the process of regeneration by their act of belief?

    " Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
    29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
    30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?" ( John 6:28-30 )

    It is a work of God for someone to believe, not a work of men.



    " For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;" ( Philippians 1:29 )

    It is given to the believer, to both believe on Him and to suffer for His sake.

    No one who truly believes, does so because they "worked themselves up to it".
    They did it because God caused it.



    Believers are saved by grace through faith...not by faith.

    Now, when a person enters a room through a door, first they...
    Have to have the door shown to them.

    They then are taken by the hand and led through the door that they were unable to see and into the room that they didn't know was even there, because they are blind and naked and poor ( Revelation 3:7 ) and have been given eyes to see and ears to hear ( Romans 11:7-8, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4, Matthew 13:16, Matthew 16:16-17, 1 Corinthians 2:14 ).

    They then pass through the door ( that they were shown ) and into the room that they didn't even care was there.
    So, a person's faith is accounted to him for righteousness... even though faith, which was authored and finished by Christ ( Hebrews 12:2 ), and comes from Christ Himself ( Galatians 2:16 ) and is a gift of God ( Ephesians 2:8 ), was, the whole time, the gift of God to no one but His saints ( Jude 1:3 ).

    They then have nothing to boast in except His mercy and grace ( Titus 3:5-6 ), because salvation is all of God and none of man.
    Even the faith they thought they had to contribute, is in reality a gift given to them by God...and they fall on their faces when they realize that nothing they ever could have done would have made any difference;
    Eternal life is a gift, not a reward for doing something.

    People have faith, because they already have access to that grace...which was by grace, not works ( Romans 11:5-6 ).
    People believe, because they are Christ's sheep ( John 10:26 )...not to go from being a goat to a sheep.




    All this regeneration before faith stuff is biblical, and makes good sense to those who understand that salvation is truly "of the Lord".

    May God bless you sir.:)
     
    #46 Dave G, Feb 4, 2019
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  7. Gregg T

    Gregg T Member

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    Van, good explanation! In 1Cor 1:26, it seems to me that Paul uses κλῆσις in reference to the character of their name; with no reference as to how they came to believe.
     
  8. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    #48 Dave G, Feb 4, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  9. Gregg T

    Gregg T Member

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    I do not see in Scripture such a thing as an "effectual" call that "can not be resisted." But I do see many examples in Scripture of people deciding to believe in the Lord.
     
    #49 Gregg T, Feb 4, 2019
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  10. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    That's OK, many of us do.
    If you do not, then you do not.

    So do I...and I also see Scripture telling me why those people believed.

    Because they are Christ's sheep ( John 10:26 ).
    Because it is given by God to them to do so ( Philippians 1:29 ).
    Because they were drawn by God ( John 6:44 ).
    Because they were given to Christ by His Father ( John 6:37-40, John 6:64-65 ).
    Because they heard His voice ( John 10:27, John 8:47 ).
    Because they were ordained to eternal life ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ).


    Scripturally, I know of no one outside of God's "calling and election" that are saved.
    No one comes to God except they are "called", and no one "hears" that "call" unless they have "ears" to "hear" ( Matthew 11:15, Matthew 13:9 ).
     
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  11. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    II Thess. 2:13-14,


    "But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: whereunto He CALLED you by our Gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."


    We have here set forth, first, God's election -- "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation."

    Then we have set forth the means by which He will bring us to salvation in Christ -- "Through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

    This is "whereunto he CALLED you by our gospel."

    How does He call a sinner unto Christ?
    "Through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth."

    "Sanctification of the Spirit" comes before "belief of the truth."

    There has to come the Divine call before a sinner can believe.

    The Divine call is made effective through sanctification of the Spirit. Now what is "sanctification of the Spirit"? The word, "sanctification," here means, "set apart."

    It is the Holy Spirit setting apart a sinner unto salvation in Christ.

    He does that by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. When God gets ready to save one of His elect, the Holy Spirit gives that sinner the effectual call through sanctification of the Spirit, or by means of sanctification of the Spirit. In other words, the sinner is marked, separated, called out from among all others.

    The Holy Spirit does this by and through the Word of God.

    Listen to James 1:18, "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth," and I Pet. 1:23 says, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."
     
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  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Gregg T


    let me help you with that Gregg;
    10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:

    11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children,

    12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

    13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

    it is effectually in that it always worketh in everyone believing
     
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  13. Gregg T

    Gregg T Member

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    Jn 10:26 does not exclude them from becoming Christ's sheep, if they believe; as Jesus appealed to them to believe His works that they might perceive and believe that the Father was in Him (Jn 10:38). Maybe those who weren't then His sheep believed after Jesus was resurrected, or after reading John's Gospel (Jn 20:31).

    Php 1:29 - being graced to believe does not equate with irresistibly made to believe.

    Jn 6:44 - This verse does not say, 'No one is able to believe in Me unless the Father ... draws him'.

    Jn 6:37 "Any one the Father gives to Me, will-arrive to Me; and I will by no means cast out the one himself coming to Me." The Father entrusted the disciples to Jesus, and there were others who would themselves come to Jesus.

    Jn 10:27 This verse does not teach they believe because the hear His voice; that is not stated here or assumed here. But rather they already have a relationship with God based on faith in that they obey what they hear from Him, they are known by Him, and they follow Him.

    I understand Acts 13:48b in this way, "... and how/as many believed then-were appointed/arranged/ordered into eternal life" or "... and they believed. How many then-were appointed into eternal life!" I do not see this verse teaching predestination to irresistibly believe, but that believers are given eternal life - and such a great number came to believe in Jesus at that event. I do see this verse teaching that they heard, rejoiced, and gave recognition to the word of God.
     
  14. Gregg T

    Gregg T Member

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    Yes, they received the word of God and they believed. 1Thes 2:13 states that God's word is also at work, efficient, in operation in 'you who are believing.' That verse does not say that God's word or His calling caused them to believe, or was so irresistible that they could do nothing else but believe it.
     
  15. Gregg T

    Gregg T Member

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    You are reading into this particular text that sanctification or being set apart into Christ comes before believing in Christ.

    God took us ... into salvation in/by sanctification of Spirit and in/by belief of truth; not 'though sanctification of the Spirit'. Here, there is no suggestion that God caused their belief of truth. We are saved by confessing LORD Jesus, believing that He is the Son of God resurrected from the dead. "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Rom 10:13).

    God called them "through" the Gospel, but nowhere is it suggested that His call is made effective so as to ensure their belief.
     
  16. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Read Romans 8:29-30. '.........Whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.' Every one of those who are called are also justified and glorified. Therefore the call must be effectual.

    This is in line with John 6:39. 'This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing but raise it up at the last day.' The Father gave to the Son a people to redeem at measureless cost. This He has done, and not one will be missing. At some point they will hear the Gospel, and will be irresistibly drawn (c.f. Jeremiah 31:3).

    Finally, John 10:28. "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you." He does not say, "You are not of My sheep because you do not believe.' No, Christ's sheep are given an effectual call and they come. Christ's sheep are a special breed; they are distinguished by their ears and their feet. They hear the Shepherd's voice, and they follow Him (v.27). Others hear, but they do not follow, not because God prevents them, but because they have wicked, unbelieving hearts, and prefer darkness to light because their deeds are evil (John 3:19).
     
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  17. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    I have met people who believe a dead in sin sinner can forgive his own sins before....I am always fascinated .

    With your free will you can choose to be saved, that's decisional regeneration.

    You probably believe at an alter call you or anyone can go forward and if they choose "get saved" it's their free will choice when they can get saved, it's their (you're) decision.


    It's amazing you have the power to decide when you want to be regenerated (saved, born again, etc...) and you do when you choose to, BUT I’m sure you claim you cant forgive your own sins.

    What do you think is easier, choosing when to save your self or forgiving your own sins?

    Do you think you can save yourself without your sins being forgiven?

    Charles Finney the heretic sure has a lasting effect on so many.
     
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  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    To repeat, regeneration before faith is nonsense. Next not one of the verses you cited support the assertion you made.

    Irresistible grace, the effectual call, the gift of faith no matter what name you give it, it is still not found in scripture anywhere.

    You say "regeneration" refers to more than one thing. No it does not. It refers to being made alive, again originated to use different words. Thus to be born anew, together with Christ.
     
  19. Forever Settled

    Forever Settled Active Member

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    I take you are one that believes you forgave your own sins ?

    You chose the time ...the day..you made a decision.

    Decisional salvation....a major reason Baptist Churches are full of lost people who attempted to forgive their own sins.
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes, Paul uses that exact form of the word only in one other place, 2 Peter 1:10. Note the phrase "calling and election." Again the meaning is to be placed into Christ, our positional sanctification once chosen through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. One niffy thing about biblical interpretation, once you find the right one, it fits everywhere. :)
     
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