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Preterists Cannot Prove Their Assertions !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by robycop3, Feb 10, 2019.

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  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Can you prove it HAS? I've repeatedly asked for PROOF, & have seen NONE.
     
  2. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    Seems to be a case of "the pot calling the kettle black". Talk about twisting Scripture, the Futurist view is 100% conjecture and misunderstanding prophecy.

    Of course symbolic passages point to something literal. There would be no point to them if they didn't. What you fail to see here is how this symbolic language points to the literal destruction of Jerusalem.

    We agree that the Scriptures are not subject to "private interpretation" per 2 Peter 1:20-21. Yet, "futurists" have badly distorted events that have already happened as if they were meant for our day. If you read prophecy without the "futurist" blinders on, you will be amazed by what you learn.
     
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  3. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    I've given you proof a dozen times. You are determined not to see it.
     
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  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Actually, God had pre-selected Abe to be the father of His "peculiar" people, whose jobs it was to present the knowledge of Him to the world, to record His word in writing, and to supply a human mother to bear His Son so he could live as a man.

    Now, not even Abe had PERFECT faith. He didn't FULLY believe God when He told Abe he'd have a son at an advanced age, especially since Sarah had likely gone thru menopause years before. (A little aside - God likely blessed the kids Abe later fathered with Keturah, his 2nd wife, after Sarah died, as he blessed Ishmael at Abe's request.).

    But I disagree entirely with your "take" of Matt. 24:29-31. Jesus was describing a cosmological disturbance that'll affect the earth, during which He will return. The partial obscuring of the sun & moon's light was also prophesied by Joel, along with fire that'll contribute to the haze.And again, those Scriptures disprove the pret guess that the great trib has already occurred, as jesus said this will occur IMMEDIATELY AFTER the trib. No getting around that Scripture! Trying to hide behind a "symbolism' guess for it WON'T WORK! the rest of that Discourse is literal, and so are those verses! (We all know "falling stars" are meteors!)
     
  5. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    The essential proof is that Jesus declared that he was the fulfilment of old covenant prophecy. Many thousands of Jews from Jerusalem and the nations responded to the new covenant Gospel.

    Jesus' prophecies concerning the judgment of unbelieving Israel were fulfilled.

    Now we look for his final coming for resurrection and judgment. We are living as servants of our victorious Saviour in a world populated by sinners for whom we have the Gospel.

    There are no unfulfilled prophecies regarding the present millennium apart from Satanic rebellion that many believers are living and dying through.

    Jesus' final prophetic words for us are at the end of his Olivet prophecy. "Watch and pray, you don't know when he is coming."

    All this futuristic speculation is a serious distraction from Christian living.
     
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    First resurrection are those in Christ at Second coming, while Second one is for lost at GWT!
     
  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    No, it's believing Scripture at face value.


    Jesus said J would be destroyed in Luke 21. daniel has already prophesied the Roman destruction as well. Nothing symbolic about it.


    One little prob...THOSE EVENTS HAVE NOT YET HAPPENED ! ! No getting by that FACT!

    You just CANNOT supply any proof!

    And again, Jesus' "immediately after" in Matt. 24 SHOULD end any guesswork that the great trib has already occurred!
     
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    No; all you've presented is the opinion, imagination, & guesswork of some pret quack authors...no TRUE evidence!
     
  9. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    So, you, too, deny Jesus' plain words?
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Actually, we CAN, based upon the laws of probability. If I throw a baseball at a glass window, the probability is the ball will bust that window, before the ball reaches it. by the same token, some of the Olivet discourse has cometa pass literally, as written, and, seeing as its speaker was Jesus, the probability is certain that the rest will cometa pass just as He spoke it.


    It's QUITE OBVIOUS prets can't prove a thing they say in favor of their myth!
     
  11. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    Would the sun and moon being obscured really be so unusual that the prophets had to write that down? While they don't happen every day, it's not all that rare either. Meteors are definitely not rare, and not worthy of a prophet making special mention of them. Therefore, I must respectfully disagree.
    We've gone around and around about how the tribulation had already occurred. I don't think either of us have said anything for a while that we haven't already said in the course of this discussion. You will keep going back to the "literal end-of-the-world" argument, and I will keep coming back with the "symbolic-of-the-destruction-of-Jerusalem" argument.
     
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Second Coming event ends history as we now know it, as all things will then be under the reign of Christ directly!
     
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The physical resurrection of those alive and died in Christ shall be happening, and the entire earth shall be affected!
     
  14. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    I think I may have to agree with you there. I definitely see the GWT as a future event.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    When did the dead and alive in Christ come out of their graves resurrected then?
     
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Still seeking the shelter of pret "symbolism".,eh? Many prets of the past dropped that myth when modern Israel was formed & their "symbolic" Jewish nation went "POOF!" But the myth didn't die. New quacks such as Preston, DelMar, & Gentry arose to write more bunk. They 've found a cash cow they intend to milk, long as gullible people buy their boox. it's all phony as a Ford Corvette.
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All they have to do is to show when in history the resurrection of the alive and dead in Christ happened!
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. Either the so called third possibility is what is true, in which case it should be explicitly in evidence, or only the futurist position is the only possihle correct understanding in order for it to be true.

    Matthew 24:29-31 has not literally happened as yet. That is the fact. Please present your hermeneutic in a clear irrefutable way.
     
    #158 37818, Feb 22, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  19. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    Taking Scripture at face value is not the same as taking all Scripture with the literal view you hold to. Earlier you acknowledged that Scripture does use symbolism, which always points to something literal. On that basis, I am taking Scripture at their "sensus literalis" value - according to the literal meaning of the passage. As a reminder, that is looking at whether it is historical, poetic, etc.

    You stated that Jesus said J would be destroyed in Luke 21. daniel has already prophesied the Roman destruction as well. Nothing symbolic about it. Let's take a closer look at Luke 21. V. 20 - When Jerusalem is surrounded by armies, her desolation (not destruction) is near. If we take what Jesus said literally, the ones who need to flee are in Judea; those in the city need to split, etc. They are in danger of falling by the sword. This describes 1st century Jerusalem to a "T", of course. I know you actually agree with me on this point.

    Starting in vs. 25, Jesus said there will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars. This clearly states that He is speaking symbolically from that point. You will either have to remind me of specifically where Daniel speaks of the Roman destruction.
     
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  20. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    To the contrary, you are only parroting the same old "end of the world" scenario that has been around for years. Not a shred of evidence for these claims.
     
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