Featured Spurgeon On Calvinism Definite Atonement

Great truth

 

God was not angry with mankind. That's the pagan gods who needed to be appeased. Sin is a sickness, not a crime. Mankind ate the forbidden fruit, we cursed ourselves. Jesus is the tree of life. He offers the cure. " and the leaves shall be the healing of the nations". What do you think communion is?
The church is a hospital. Christ is the great physician. The priest or pastors are doctors. The deacons are nurses. The songs, prayers, and scripture reading are therapy. The communion is medicine.
Forensic salvation sucks. I like God's spiritual healthcare plan.

 

Diseases do not receive punishment, crimes do. Sin is a crime against God's laws.

 

The proof is in the tulip that Calvinist limit the atonement. The L in Calvinist doctrine is Limited Atonement. They limited it to the individually elect. Scripture never says that only the so called elect will be saved. When Christ died for the whole world.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
This verse does not say He died for the elect but for the whole world and then says who so ever believes would have ever lasting life. Calvinist must say that Christ is confused here. Or change the verse.
MB

 

So then everyone is saved? That's the only other alternative.

The word World is used in different ways at different times.

Neither. Nobody has the ability to believe without the regeneration of the Spirit.

 

Not so! Just because Christ died for the sins of the world doesn't mean He saves everyone. Everyone must believe for that to happen. Other wise you'd have to deny scripture which many do in favor of preconceived ideas.

True it is but not in this case there is nothing there that indicates anything other than the whole world.
Every man woman and child has been chosen when He died for the whole world. Everyone is drawn because Christ was lifted up on that Cross. Though admittedly not all will come to the light. Man can and does reject Christ the Jews did and the Gentiles are more than capable. We were chosen first but we to must also choose Christ by believing in Him.

Scripture please?. The reason I ask is because there is nothing in scripture that states that man must be saved before being saved. Just for clarity Regeneration means to be saved.There is nothing in scripture that says man cannot understand the gospel when he hears it and he can hear it.scripture says so.
MB

 

With that viewpoint you make God unjust. Punishment for sins that have already been paid for...

You have to look at the whole of Scripture.

Christ doesn't lose any that have been given him by the Father. If all were chosen, all would be saved. Period.

John 6:44
John 6:65
John 8:47
Acts 16:14
Romans 3:10-12
Romans 8:7-8

 

Spurgeon ;
Spurgeon held that Calvinism was only a “nickname” for the historic and biblical Gospel, and stated the matter succinctly:

It is no novelty, then, that I am preaching; no new doctrine. I love to proclaim these strong old doctrines, what are called by nickname Calvinism, but which are surely and verily the revealed truth of God as it is in Jesus Christ. By this truth I make a pilgrimage into the past, and as I go, I see father after father, confessor after confessor, martyr after martyr, standing up to shake hands with me. Were I a Pelagian, or a believer in the doctrine of free–will, I should have to walk for centuries all alone. Here and there a heretic, of no very honorable character, might rise up and call me brother. But taking these things to be the standard of my faith, I see the land of the ancients peopled with my brethren. I behold multitudes who confess the same as I do, and acknowledge that this is the religion of God’s own church.

“Salvation is of the Lord.” That is just an epitome of Calvinism; it is the sum and substance of it...there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the Gospel, and nothing else.

Spurgeon on Calvinism | The Reformed Reader

 

All this TULIP formula. You can't put God in a box. He created the universe. What do we know?
" the object that can be named is not the object" as Lao Tzu might say.
Christ is the Eternal Tao. We can know Him, but we can circumscribe any boundary to Him. That is blasphemy.
The TULIP needs to be clipped.

 

I agree with Spurgeon on this one. Arminianism is pretty lame and philosophically unsound.

 

You don't see any connection between Calvinism and Pharisees? Sounds the same to me. And they missed Christ because they reasoned to themselves. These conclusions are the result of reason and extrapolation.

 

Please take some time to read the Bible and see the things Jesus did not like about the Pharisees. In fact, please take at least a week time out to read the Bible. Jesus never said, "Woe to the Pharisees for they reason and extrapolate".

 

Well all I can say is you can try to change their minds about it. There have been many who have tried and with very little success. I've debated with Calvinist for a few years. One thing I have found out is that it's impossible to try to convince someone they are wrong with out proof from scripture. Some of them are very well educated and they are not push overs. The only thing that does seem to make them think is to approach them with respect, and in humility.

The person you mentioned above are unknown to me and I'm not quite sure who you are speaking about.
MB

 

Not in the slightest.

Which is as it should be. And since the doctrines of grace are peppered throughout Scripture you won't convince me otherwise.

 

Maybe not but only because you have been convinced by man not scripture. There is no tulip in scripture nor is it even hinted at.
MB

 

Not even hinted at? I can give you a thorough presentation of TULIP from the book of John alone. That doesn't even start with Romans or any other passages that have it blatantly obvious.

 

Don't let me stop you. I'm interested in showing where you are mistaken.

 

Radical Depravity

1. John 6:44 - No man can come to me unless drawn by the Father.
2. John 6:65 - He reiterates the point. Nobody is coming to him unless drawn by the Father.
3. John 8:47 - Unless you are of God, you cannot hear the words of God.

Sovereign Election

1. John 6:37, 39 - All that the Father gives to the son will come to the son.
2. John 10:1-9 - His sheep hear his voice. Those who are not his sheep do not hear.
3. John 13:18 - I know who I have chosen, I am not speaking to all of you.
4. John 17:2 - Christ has the authority to give eternal life only to those the Father gave to him.
5. John 17:9 - I do not pray for the whole world, only for those you have given to me.

Definite Atonement

John 10:11 - The Shepherd lays his life down for the sheep, not the whole world.
John 17:2, 9, 19, 24 - He only has the authority to give eternal life to those the Father gave him. He does not pray for the whole world but the ones the Father gave to him.


Irresistible Call

1. John 6:37 - All the Father gives the Son will come to Him.
2. John 10 - The sheep follow the shepherd, the will not follow the voice of a stranger.


Preserving Grace

1. John 3:15 - He who believes has eternal life.
2. John 3:16 - Those that believe will never perish.
3. John 5:24 - Those that believe will not come unto judgement.
4. John 6:39-40 - Christ will not lose one that has been given to Him.
5. John 10:27-29 Nobody can snatch them out of His hands.

 

You can for sure and it will help some people.
What would happen with some is they will attempt to explain away the clear teaching saying it is not for everyone but only for Israel.