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"this do, and thou shalt live." - N.T. Wright on "works of the Law"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Biblicist, Mar 5, 2019.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Lk. 10:25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
    26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
    27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
    28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.


    Mt. 19:16 ¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
    21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me
    .

    N.T. Wright denies that the Jews viewed the law as a "works system" for moral justification to obtain eternal life. Thus, he asserts that the phrases "works of the law" or "justification by works" does not refer to any moral basis for justification but rather simply defines the Jewish covenant community or being Jewish or Jewishness, and Paul and others are merely denying one must become a Jew or part of the Jewish covenant community to be justified/saved.

    However, if N.T. Wright is wrong and the Jews did regard the law as a moral basis for justification then the whole system of justification embraced and taught and defended by Wright falls apart completely and totally.

    Notice in both passages above there are two Jews that came to Christ and asked "what CAN I DO" to inherit/obtain eternal life. Jesus answered in keeping with the precise nature of their question and told them what they need to "do" to inherit eternal life - keep/obey the Law.

    Notice, that the rich young ruler believed he had done just that "from my youth up" and said that is part of my bucket list that I have already accomplished what more can "I DO." In other words, the mind set of this Jew demands that he thought DOING something especially keeping the law was necessary to obtain eternal life and in his own mind he thought he had done just that. Of course, he had not kept any of the law except in his own imagination and Jesus proved this by telling him what keeping the law ultimately demands - faith in total dependence upon God and giving all that you have for the sake of others. The whole law and the prophets hang on these two principles.

    The mindset of both of the Jews was justification or obtaining eternal life was something that was obtained by what they thought they can "do."

    Moreover, in both cases Jesus anwered that same question in the same manner - keep the Law. Jesus did not believe they or any other Jew had kept the law or can keep the law:

    Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me? - Jn. 7:19

    However, the mind set of the Jews was that they can and they do keep the law and it was necessary to inherit eternal life. How do you show them they don't and can't? You tell them to try but then tell them what trying entails, you tell them what it really means, just as Jesus did with the rich young ruler.

    When Paul was a lost pious Jew, he too imagined in his own mind that he kept the law because he interpreted the law like all the Jews as an EXTERNAL demand. Under this false imagination he regarded himself as alive unto God or justified in God's sight because he EXTERNALLY kept the law (as did the rich young ruler) until he found out that the law is spiritual and deals with the right and wrong thoughts and intents of the heart. He discovered this when trying to keep the tenth commandment and as a result his perceived status before God as one who was alive to God (justified in God's sight by law keeping) was destroyed by the realization that he failed to keep the law, and thus fell under it condemnation of death instead of under its justification for life:

    Rom. 7: 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

    In other words, the tenth commandment was used by God's Spirit to show him that the law was "spiritual" or dealt with the internal thoughts and intents of his heart rather than just external conformity.

    8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

    When he attempted to keep that law he had to deal with all his wrong thoughts and intents and that is how sin became known to him. Prior to this internalization application of the law "sin was dead" meaning he had no cognance that he was a sinner. The following verses just amplify this reality by applying the law inwardly to his heart.

    9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
    10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
    11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

    This shows that the Jewish mindset in Saul of Tarsus was one that viewed EXTERNAL law keeping as a moral means for justification before God.

    Hence, when Paul speaks of "the works of the Law" or that we are not "justified by works" he is not referring to what identifies the Jewish covenant community but he is repudiating this Jewish mindset that sees the Law as something they "can do" in order to obtain eternal life. This truth repudiates the whole Soteriological system of N.T. Wright.
     
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  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Exactly right! :)
    Romans 2:17-21. 'Indeed, you are called a Jew and rest on the law, and make your boast in God, and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law...........You therefore, who teach others, do you not teach yourself?'
    Wright is wrong. :D
     
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  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I believe it is simple... love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul.... then love your neighbor as your self. I don’t know why that’s so difficult
     
  4. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Active Member

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    I often hear people who teach salvation by works cite Matthew 19:7 as a proof text and we see that the rich young ruler confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms, but was deceived. Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in Jesus unto salvation.

    The rich young ruler missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches. The rich young ruler went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life. Jesus exposed his heart and knows the hearts of all men and responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or to Nicodemus or to the rich young ruler the same way, yet the consistent pattern in scripture is salvation by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9).
     
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  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Absolutely! It's right there in Leviticus 18:5. :Biggrin
     
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...and you say that in both instances, instead of truthfully answering the question, He just 'yanked their string' with a falsehood. Right?
     
  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    He's referring them to the schoolmaster. 'For if righteousness comes through the law, Christ died for nothing.' 'Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ that we might be justified by faith' (Galatians 2:21; 3:24).
     
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    So you say, and/or the 'schoolmasters' that taught you. You ever think outside of your 'Calvinist box'?

    "The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up". If this was wrong or not true don't you think it odd that Christ never rebuked him or refuted his answer? Instead it's stated that Christ 'loved him'.
     
  9. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    He did refute him. He pointed him to the 10th Commandment (c.f. Romans 7:7), and the RYR realised that he was not as good as he thought he was. 'Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.'

    As for the Lord Jesus loving the guy, that is why He pointed him to the law, so that the law might bring him to Christ. Personally, I do not believe that anyone whom the Lord loves (c.f. John 13:1) will wind up condemned, so it's my view that the RYR came back to the Lord Jesus suitably chastened. I can't prove that so we'll have to wait to see if we meet him in heaven.
     
  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Again, so you say/insert into the narrative. Christ specifically pointed him to these commandments 'for eternal life' in the text:

    16 And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    17 And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
    (see Matthew 7:12; Romans 13:8-10)

    It’s interesting what a search reveals here:

    …. Teacher, all these things have I observed from my youth. And Jesus looking upon him loved him… Mk 10:20,21

    Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus. Jn 11:5

    She runneth therefore, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple whom Jesus loved…. Jn 20:2

    7 That disciple therefore whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord….
    20 Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following… Jn 21

    That’s it, there’s not many of them.
     
  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    So, do you believe in obeying the law in order to obtain eternal life AND that eternal life is a free gift without works??

    If you believe eternal life is a free gift without works, then is not Christ properly using the Law according to God's intent which is not to obtain eternal life but to frustrate the would be do-gooder in order to turn him away from works for salvation and come to Christ to receive it as gift?

    In other words, didn't Christ simply respond to his "works" mentality and say go for it if that is how you think you can get eternal life?



    How do you know that he did not come to faith in Christ later?
     
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Eternal life is a free gift apart from the works of the law. 'Obeying the law' through the will is an impossibility, you know it, I know it, BUT, doing 'by nature' the things of the law from a regenerate, circumcised heart with the law written upon it is an everyday occurrence with His people, even down to the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    That's the 'status quo' take on it, I admit. To me it's significant that in the only two times recorded that He was asked the question, 'What can I do to inherit eternal life?', He pointed to the commandments that comprise 'the golden rule' on both occasions. I have to conclude that His intent was the works by which we're all going to be judged by at the tribunal.

    Oh, I'm convinced he was regenerate when he approached Christ with the question, as was Nicodemus, and Zacharias and many others.
     
    #12 kyredneck, Mar 11, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    I do not believe the regenerate heart has any ability to do that! I believe that ability comes from denying self and depending totally on the power of the indwelling Spirit to do that. Meaning, the Spirit enables the soul to "put on" the new man.



    I think he pointed to specific laws in the Ten Commandments. The "golden rule" is not a rejection of the ten commandments or something different. The "golden rule" simply summarizes the commandments from a positive perspective ("love") instead of from a negative perspective ("not").



    I like that response.
     
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