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Featured IFB & the KJVO myth...

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by robycop3, Apr 6, 2019.

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  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I take a similar view to that which Paul took to Peter's refusing to dine at a table with gentiles. Peter was clearly wrong, & Paul didn't hesitate to call him down for it.

    Teaching the KJVO myth is clearly wrong, and so I speak out against it.
     
    #41 robycop3, Apr 9, 2019
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  2. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I know Logos will answer,but so will I, for myself. My final authority is God's written word, either in the ancient Scriptural mss, or any accurate English translation of such. There are a number of such translations available, old & new.


    The late Dr. Ruckman had the right to be wrong, & so do you.


    Why confine them to a "Model T" English version that's not in the current English style?


    ...Except where it has goofs & booboos.
     
    #42 robycop3, Apr 9, 2019
  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    The NT Scripture is in Koine (common) Greek. A subset of Attic/Classical Greek developed supposedly by Alexander the Great. Some claim that it is a dialect meant for the not so highly educated.

    Introduction to New Testament Greek

    As such since the Holy Spirit is the ultimate author of the scripture then any translation into any language should be true to this aspect as well (NKJV or NIV with TR footnotes) as grammatical and semantic accuracy.

    Personally I prefer a NT translation based upon the TR (Textus Receptus - Scrivener 1894).

    Probably any translation which attempts intellectual honesty to the elements of Grammar, Syntax, vocabulary, etc is acceptable unless of course there is an obvious agenda RE: JW - New World Translation.
     
    #43 HankD, Apr 9, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  4. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    Didn't know about the "Clear Word" translation, so I just looked it up on CARM. Thanks for bringing it up to beware of it's false teachings.
     
    #44 Lodic, Apr 9, 2019
  5. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    Of course not. That is why I have a much deeper basis for my beliefs that just simply choosing to believe something.

    Agreed. Although, precious few, relatively.

    This is intellectual dishonesty. Your statements are true statements, but one is led to believe that there are great and numerous disagreements between the KJV and the underlying texts.

    Allow me to ask two direct questions:

    What is the percentage of agreement between the KJV New Testament of today and the extent Greek manuscript evidence?

    What is the percentage of agreement between the Critical Text and the extent Greek manuscript evidence?
     
    #45 Pastor_Bob, Apr 9, 2019
  6. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    I agree 100%. Since I do not read Hebrew or Greek fluently, I have to resort to the English.

    For me, not as many new. If you're reading, heeding, leading, and feeding...I have no problem with whatever version you've chosen.

    I have seven granddaughters. Four of them are old enough to read. They have no problem at all reading from or memorizing their KJV Bible verses. The KJV is not an antique; it is still the English Bible version by which all other versions are measured.

    I've not found any.
     
    #46 Pastor_Bob, Apr 9, 2019
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Those on the extreme side of the KJVO seem to end of almost worshiping the Bible as equal to the God whote wrote it!
    I have rread where them equated the logos/word of God as being the 1611Lkv itself!
     
    #47 Yeshua1, Apr 9, 2019
  8. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, like Flat-Earthers, people can make a passage somewhere in the Bible support their beliefs.
     
    #48 MartyF, Apr 9, 2019
  9. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    Can you provide references where you read this? This is new to me.
     
    #49 Pastor_Bob, Apr 9, 2019
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think there can be an issue at times with literacy. Not that the KJV is antiquated but that it uses antiquated terms that do not fit naturally in our conversations. This is not to detract from the KJV but to acknowledge a change in language and a need to study the Bible and not to take it superficially.

    As an example, a few months ago I had to listen to a sermon about how God called out people for their stupidity. The preacher confused "dumb" (unable to speak) with "stupid". On another occasion a preacher confused "so" ("thusly") with "so much" in John 3:16 and gave a sermon on how God loved us "so much" that He gave His Son (not that God did not love us "so much", but that is not the meaning of the text).

    These are not mistakes in the KJV but a reflection of how language has changed.
     
    #50 JonC, Apr 9, 2019
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  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I know the earth is flat - I lived in Kansas for 3 years.
     
    #51 HankD, Apr 9, 2019
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  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    KJV
    2 Corinthians 6
    11 O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
    12 Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
    13 Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.

    NIV
    2 Corinthians 6
    11 We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians, and opened wide our hearts to you.
    12 We are not withholding our affection from you, but you are withholding yours from us.
    13 As a fair exchange-- I speak as to my children-- open wide your hearts also.
     
    #52 HankD, Apr 9, 2019
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  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    When I turned 50 I learned to appreciate streight bowels.
     
    #53 JonC, Apr 9, 2019
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  14. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    For the record, let me say that I lean toward CT-preferred translations, but I do not despise the Majority Text or "TR" versions, though I would accept MT before TR translations.

    That said, it has bothered me for many years that Roby has constantly bandied the shibboleth that the KJV-onlyism has no scriptural support.

    Duh. No version has scriptural support. In fact, no canon has scriptural support. When the Reformers adopted Sola Scriptura, what they really meant was Prima Scriptura, i.e., Scripture is above all other sources of doctrine and practice. You will look in vain in the Bible for advice on which manuscripts to use, or even which books should be in the Bible.

    The Latin Rite folks love to trot this out to prove that Sola Scriptura is not a valid doctrine. Humbug. God has given us teachers and brains and expects us to draw conclusions in concordance with Scripture; unlike the Latin Rite folks, we do not consider our teachers and brains infallible and able to pronounce the Words of God in our own opinions.

    Those who want to use the KJV should certainly do so. The KJV is the word of God. And all we who would use other versions, having been convinced of their validity, would simply like not to be called heretics or schismatics or worse for our considered opinions.
     
    #54 rsr, Apr 9, 2019
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  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    This is the problem I have with that reasoning – where do we draw the line?

    If it is acceptable to “condemn” the “servant of Another” for holding to the KJV as the only legitimate version of Scripture then is it also appropriate to condemn other people for holding versions that meet our disapproval (e.g., the NIV, the Message, etc. ).

    What about the secondary doctrines we hold? Is it appropriate for those who disagree to combat us for those beliefs?

    I do not know where we are to draw the line. I have a place, case by case, where I (personally) draw the line. And this place dictates churches I’d consider joining.

    But there seems more “in fighting” than “out fighting” – what I mean is that Christians seem much more willing to fight other Christians than they are willing to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Anyway, those are my thoughts. I am in no way saying that you are wrong in how you determine to address others for whom Christ died. Perhaps such error, given particular circumstances, can only spark such conflict among brethren. I am not in that situation, so for me I cannot grasp a situation that would elicit such a response. I’m simply left saddened with the idea that Christians “kill their own”. I think that those who are active in the full-time ministry, particularly with other denominations, can more identify with your sentiment.
     
    #55 JonC, Apr 9, 2019
  16. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    It is isnt about "killing their own", but about fellowship and maintaining trust of the Bible. I can't allow a middle school kid to tell other kids that the NIV or NKJV are not real bibles. If you allow this teaching to go unchecked, you are left with 2 options. Switch to postion KJVO or allow someone to posion the minds of other believers and allow it to weaken their view of their Bible and what is being taught at your church.

    This is about correction, not attacking. You post also mentioned people using the Message or other versions someone might disaprove of. If they promote Message onlyism, that is an issue. But if they prefer the Message or NLT ....or whatever....that is a much different animal than saying it is the only acceptable and true Bible.


    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
    #56 McCree79, Apr 9, 2019
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  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Well, actually, Sir, there are quite a few. A short list includes "Easter" in Acts 12:4, "thou shalt not KINN" in Ex. 20:13, & "the love of money is THE root of ALL evil" in 1 Tim. 6:10. While the KJV is an overall excellent translation, it's not perfect.

    And your granddaughters wiuld likely do better reading Scripture in their everyday language.
     
    #57 robycop3, Apr 10, 2019
  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    And I'll CONTINUE to "bandy that shibboleth" because it's TRUE! And NO doctrine of faith/worship can be true unless it's found in Scripture, at least by clear implication, as is the doctrine of the Holy Trinity.

    Well, translations are shown in Scripture, such as the Holy Spirit's causing all people present to hear Peter's preaching in his/her own best language at the "first pentecost".

    Seems we're getting into a KJVO debate here instead of finding out why the KJVO myth is so prevalent among IFBs, & Baptists in general, more than in any other major denomination. (And, for the record, I am sola scriptura.)
     
    #58 robycop3, Apr 10, 2019
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Far as I'm concerned, ALL "one-version-onlyism" teaching is false.

    I'm still wondering how & why the KJVO myth became so attached to Baptists, IFBs in particular, while KJVO is quite-unpopular among other major denominations.
     
    #59 robycop3, Apr 10, 2019
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  20. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    This bogus Bible version was made & published by one man, Jack Blanco, in 1996. Dr. Blanco is a retired Dean of a 7TH DAY ADVENTIST college, and so has some ties with Dr. Ben Wilkinson, the SDA official who wrote the "foundation book" for the current version of the KJVO myth. As is to be expected, this Bible version is biased toward the SDA cult, and is wholly paraphrased. It is NOT a legitimate Bible version, and was put together by Dr. Blanco from other existing English Bible translations.

    While the SDA does not endorse it as its "official" version, they're certainly not against it! And Blanco says he made it as a "devotional paraphrase of the Bible expanded for clarity", being careful not to call it a "Bible version". And it IS printed & sold by an official SDA printing house!

    But, Brethren, lemme tellya, it's phony as a Chevy Mustang! It's meant to push SDA doctrine, & NOT as a legitimate translation of God's word!
     
    #60 robycop3, Apr 10, 2019
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