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Featured Redemption

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Rebuttal to follow:


    1) "So our redemption was from our former way of life." Our former way of life was in bondage to sin.
    2) "It was accomplished by Christ's sacrifice of Himself on the cross." No, we were redeemed when God transferred us spiritually into Christ and sealed us in Christ with the Holy Spirit.
    3) "He was 'manifested ....To the......elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father' Here we have a conflation, Christ was manifested to those who were then chosen during Peter's time, and those who were chosen were chosen according to God's plan of redemption through faith, with the redemption plan being formulated before time.
    4) "He chose us in Him [Christ] before the foundation of the world." God chose the Word to be His Lamb, His Redeemer before time, and therefore God chose corporately those His Redeemer would redeem. We could not have been chosen individually, because we lived not as a people before we became a people chosen for God's possession. 1 Peter 2:9-10
    5) "we were given to Christ by God the Father in eternity past to be redeemed (John 6:38-39; 10:27-29)." John 6:38-39 does not say when God gives individuals to Christ (transfers them into Christ's kingdom) there to claim eternity past has been read into the text. Ditto for John 10:27-29. So two examples of citing verses that do not say what was claimed.
    6) "Through our union with Christ, we were 'in Christ' when He was crucified (Romans 6:8; Galatians 2:20; Colossians 3:3)," We were put into Christ (baptized into Christ) establishing our union with Christ during our lifetime, not when Christ bought mankind on the cross. We were crucified with Christ when were were baptized into Christ. So three more examples where the cited verses to not say we were in union with Christ when He was crucified.
     
    #21 Van, Apr 17, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Faith is a gift that God gives to His own elect.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    After we are chosen,redeemed, become a new creation, we are sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit. And one of the gifts of the spirit is faith. But obviously that is post salvation faith strengthening.

    The "Gift of Faith" is a fiction, found no where in scripture. Salvation through our accredited faith is the gift.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    -
    Paul stated in Ephesians 2:8-10 we receive Jesus thru the Gift of God our faith, correct?
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    You know your assertion is false. We have dealt with it several times. Why do you continue to claim "faith" is a pre-salvation gift, when you know God credits our faith (not God's instilled faith) as righteousness.

    Do you deny God credits our faith? Read Romans 4.

    How could we be given faith before we were chosen through faith? No answer nor acknowledgement with be forthcoming.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Take a blank 8 1/2 by 11 sheet of paper. Draw a 3" circle on the right side. Label the circle
    "In Christ." Draw a black dot 2" outside the circle. Label the dot "Lost soul." Draw an arrow from the dot to inside the circle. Label it redemption. Got it?

    When we are put into Christ (1 Corinthians 1:30) we are put into Christ's propitiatory shelter (Romans 3:25). Note, in Romans 3:25, the form of the noun translated "propitiation" actually refers to the place where the propitiation occurs, the propitiatory.
     
    #26 Van, Apr 19, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God chooses us to be the redemned in Christ, and then we receive Jesus thru His gift of faith unto us!
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Has Y1 answered the question, how were we chosen through faith, if those chosen are then given faith through irresistible grace. Here the question is once again ignored.

    Were those chosen (James 2:5) rich in faith and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God?

    To repeat, there is no actual support anywhere in scripture for the mistaken doctrines of Icon and Y1.

    Take a blank 8 1/2 by 11 sheet of paper. Draw a 3" circle on the right side. Label the circle
    "In Christ." Draw a black dot 2" outside the circle. Label the dot "Lost soul." Draw an arrow from the dot to inside the circle. Label it redemption. Got it?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus first chose us, not us first choosing Him!
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hi Y1, why no answer? Why no biblical support? Deflection on display.

    What was the basis of God giving you to Christ. Accredited Faith in the truth?
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Were those chosen (James 2:5) rich in faith and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God?

    Take a blank 8 1/2 by 11 sheet of paper. Draw a 3" circle on the right side. Label the circle
    "In Christ." Draw a black dot 2" outside the circle. Label the dot "Lost soul." Draw an arrow from the dot to inside the circle. Label it redemption. Got it?

    How were we chosen to be set apart in Christ, our redemption? Through faith in the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:13
    Who put us in Christ? 1 Corinthians 1:30 God did.
    Did God chose those rich in faith? James 2:5 Yes
    Did we live not as a chosen people before being chosen? Yes 1 Peter 2:9-10
     
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