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Totally Depraved Cornelius

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by utilyan, Apr 16, 2019.

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  1. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Of course you miss a key point. In Jeremiah, the potter made a mistake then remade it. In Romans it says the potter SPECIFICALLY made the vessel for destruction as dishonorable.
     
    #101 Reformed1689, Apr 23, 2019
  2. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    So is your reasoning that GOD was trying to say he makes mistakes in Jeremiah? come on now.

    Paul is just paraphrasing this along with Isaiah 45.

    Isaiah 45
    9“Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker—
    An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth!
    Will the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you doing?’
    Or the thing you are making say, ‘He has no hands'

    The Jews would immediately recognize THE FULL CONTEXT. Not the plain butchery Calvinist tradition and dogma dictates.

    And lets suppose none of those old testament verses existed.

    What does the scripture say? Don't tell me what your tradition thinks it teaches, tell me what the scripture says here:

    Romans 9

    22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?


    WHAT IF, WHAT IF, WHAT IF.

    That doesn't mean it is so. What if GOD willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known, decided to make a doughnut the size of a mountain?

    Had Paul said that, sure enough you'd be looking up in the sky......WHERE IS IT!?
     
    #102 utilyan, Apr 23, 2019
  3. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Does conversion mean converted from one substance to another?
     
    #103 percho, Apr 23, 2019
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The Jew would have understood that Edom was cursed never to be saved.
     
    #104 1689Dave, Apr 24, 2019
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    But the gospel is not law............
     
    #105 1689Dave, Apr 24, 2019
  6. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Did I say that? No. The part of the verse that talks about the clay spoiling God was not the potter in that verse.

    The context is ONLY an illustration that we are the clay in the Potter's hands and the potter can do as He wishes.

    It is a rebuke. It is a rhetorical question following the rebuke of Who are you man to question God? To answer back to God?

    The passage means exactly what I have said and you can't do any twisting to get out of it no matter how hard your try. Some people will never be saved because God passes over them. They are vessels prepared for their destruction due to their sin.

    I get that you, and others, can't accept that plain truth but that doesn't make it false.
     
    #106 Reformed1689, Apr 24, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry David I will never be a Calvinist because I know the truth.
    MB
     
    #107 MB, Apr 24, 2019
  8. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    "They are vessels prepared for their destruction due to their sin."

    Please quote scripture to support your false theory. Nothing states God has to prove himself to anyone and prepared vessels of destruction.

    Name one living human being who is a vessel prepared for destruction or cease baseless accusations against mankind.
     
    #108 utilyan, Apr 24, 2019
  9. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Who said anything about God proving Himself?

    Judas
     
    #109 Reformed1689, Apr 24, 2019
  10. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Judas is alive? Who knew...
     
    #110 InTheLight, Apr 24, 2019
  11. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I ignored the nonsense about living human being. We can't know about living human beings. That is not for us to know.
     
    #111 Reformed1689, Apr 24, 2019
  12. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    It is a "mystery".
     
    #112 InTheLight, Apr 24, 2019
  13. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    A favorite line of yours, no it is not a mystery in the sense you try to make mystery mean. It is the choice of God that he has chosen to not reveal to us.
     
    #113 Reformed1689, Apr 24, 2019
  14. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Oh, and what sense do I try to make the word "mystery" mean?

    <we got another mind reader here>
    -----------------------

    mystery.JPG



    No kidding!
     
    #114 InTheLight, Apr 24, 2019
  15. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You use it as a pejorative term when you don't have a response to Reformed Theology.
     
    #115 Reformed1689, Apr 24, 2019
  16. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    No, I use it to point out when Calvinists are painted into a theological corner and they have no satisfactory response they often utilize "it's a mystery" as their answer.
     
    #116 InTheLight, Apr 24, 2019
  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    As if you have ever pinned us in a corner.
     
    #117 Reformed1689, Apr 24, 2019
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  18. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Many times. Which is where I derived my Calvinist "it's a mystery" stereotypical statement.
     
    #118 InTheLight, Apr 24, 2019
  19. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Name one corner you can actually paint the Reformed viewpoint into. Just one.
     
    #119 Reformed1689, Apr 24, 2019
  20. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    The most common one is the question of the origin of evil and how it relates to God's decreed will and God's permissive will.

    Just search this board for the word "mystery" and my screen name. For the years 2012 through 2016 or thereabouts.
     
    #120 InTheLight, Apr 24, 2019
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