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If tongues were to cease at the end of the world, why would Paul need to mention it?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by 1689Dave, Apr 20, 2019.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    When was the resurrection of the Church back then? and the Second Coming ushers in either the fullness of the Kingdom here, or else the Final state, but not as we see it as being still now!
     
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Paul said the Revelation of Jesus Christ (written by John) would also confirm us unto the end.
     
  3. GaoLu

    GaoLu Member

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    Dave, your premise seems to be built on questionable assumptions including two that are especially conspicuous.

    1. The "Day of our Lord Jesus Christ" is the same as "The revelation of Jesus Christ" which is the same as the contents of the book John wrote.

    2. The 3 concepts above are not only identical but occurred either 60 or 90 AD.

    If any of those often-debated assumptions are incorrect, then we might look for something else Paul might have meant. For example, the "Day of our Lord Jesus Christ" is thought by some to be a future event in which case Paul may be indicating that tongues would almost surely still exist.
     
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Simply put, Paul says to seek the gifts until the Revelation of Jesus Christ who will also confirm us until the end (Day of the Lord). So it isn't the Day of the Lord he speaks of. And John wrote the Revelation of Jesus Christ about the time the gifts drop out of sight.
     
  5. GaoLu

    GaoLu Member

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    Then let me add a third debatable assumption for your premise:

    3. Gifts dropped out of sight about 60 AD or 90 AD.
     
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    According to Paul and history.
     
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You need to study this a bit longer. It is not talking about the book of Revelation. Is is talking about the coming of Jesus.

    New International Version
    Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.

    New Living Translation
    Now you have every spiritual gift you need as you eagerly wait for the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    English Standard Version
    so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

    Berean Study Bible
    Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly await the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Berean Literal Bible
    so as for you not to be lacking in any gift as you eagerly await the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

    New American Standard Bible
    so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

    King James Bible
    So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

    Christian Standard Bible
    so that you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Contemporary English Version
    You are not missing out on any blessings, as you wait for him to return.

    Good News Translation
    that you have not failed to receive a single blessing, as you wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    so that you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    International Standard Version
    Therefore, you don't lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus the Messiah to be revealed.

    1 Corinthians 1:7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly await the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    No, it is speaking about the Revelation that will also confirm us unto the Coming of Jesus on the last day.
     
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Sigh,


    King James Bible
    So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Disagree.
     
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    "who will also confirm you unto the end" is really important if you consider it. Plus, only the apostles could distribute the gifts through their hands besides the two outpourings. So today's gifts are nothing more than "Pentecostal knockoffs". Like a $3.00 Rolex..........
     
  12. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    "coming" = apocalypse = Revelation.
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You are lost. Ill leave you to it
     
  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Look at the Greek............ it's all there.
     
  15. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I hear you.
     
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  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The purpose of the so called sign gifts ceasded when the canon was completed, but the Second Coming event has not yet happened!
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Tongues were the least of the gifts back in Acts, and were not a sign of any second Baptism in the Holy Ghost as some hold with it being today!
     
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If tongues were to cease at the end of the world, why would Paul need to mention it? If they were to cease anyway? With everything else?

    Paul said; “so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye be unreproveable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 1:7)

    Notice the Revelation would also confirm them to the end. So they would not seek the gifts until the end. But only until the Revelation of Christ.

    The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;” (Revelation 1:1)

    So he was saying the gifts would expire with the Revelation of Jesus Christ that we now know was written by John in either 60 or 90 AD.

    All of the gifts expired, and history confirms this, as John published Revelation.


    602. ἀποκάλυψις apŏkalupsis, ap-ok-al´-oop-sis; from 601; disclosure:—appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

    Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 14).

    used for Revelation of Jesus Christ by Paul and John


    Notice Paul uses a different word for the second coming of Christ;


    “Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely. And may your spirit, soul, and body be kept sound and blameless for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Thessalonians 5:23)

    Coming = παρουσία, Parousia = 15.86 παρέρχομαιb; παραγίνομαιa; πάρειμιb; παρουσίαb, ας f; παρίσταμαιe (and 2nd aorist active): to come to be present at a particular place—‘to come, to arrive, to come to be present.’

    παρέρχομαιb: παρελθὼν διακονήσει αὐτοῖς ‘when he arrives, he will serve them’ Lk 12:37.[1]



    f feminine

    [1] Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, pp. 192–193). New York: United Bible Societies.
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The revelation of Jesus is His Second Coming!
     
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    No, the Revelation is the apocalypse. The second coming is the Parousia.
     
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