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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 1689Dave, May 19, 2019.

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  1. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    They gave us the material through which we understand these sorts of things. Truth is good.
     
    #21 1689Dave, May 21, 2019
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Luther used the example of the extreme warfare of the flesh and spirit in the Christian to demonstrate to Erasmus that without the Spirit nobody would ever come to God.
     
    #22 1689Dave, May 21, 2019
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  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.” (Acts 11:18)

    They believed (were saved) or they would not have repented.
     
    #23 1689Dave, May 21, 2019
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  4. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Well-Known Member

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    Belief is not a form of repentance. That premise is not correct. The Bible makes a clear distinction between repentance and belief.

    Repentance is our response to the Gospel's accusation that we have sinned and stand condemned. Repentance is a change of mind and results in a change of direction.
     
    #24 GoodTidings, May 21, 2019
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  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Belief precedes choosing to believe or any other act of repentance. If you didn't believe, you would n't choose to believe.
     
    #25 1689Dave, May 21, 2019
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  6. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Well-Known Member

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    I can accept that belief precedes repentance. I am responding to your claim that belief is a form of repentance. It is not a form of repentance.
     
    #26 GoodTidings, May 21, 2019
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  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Choosing to believe is not a form of biblical repentance, any more than making a decision or going forward. But they are stand ins for what would normally be baptism.
     
    #27 1689Dave, May 21, 2019
  8. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Well-Known Member

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    I am not talking about "choosing to believe." I am addressing your claim that belief is a form of repentance. Are you recanting on that claim?
     
    #28 GoodTidings, May 21, 2019
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I never said that. I said choosing to believe is based on already believing, or they wouldn't choose to believe.
     
    #29 1689Dave, May 21, 2019
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  10. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Well-Known Member

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    I see. My mistake. You said here,
    Okay, so believing before choosing to believe is a form of repentance. This is not in the Bible; it appears to be something you have made up. You said in the same quote that it all about how we define repentance, and I pointed out that the Bible only knows ONE definition of repentance and not your artificial definition of it.
     
    #30 GoodTidings, May 21, 2019
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Choosing to believe is not in the bible. But Arminians claim it is a type of sacrament that conveys salvation. What I'm saying is a person must believe (be saved) or they would not believe enough to partake of the sacrament.
     
    #31 1689Dave, May 21, 2019
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I believe Holy Spirit was convicting me of the sin in my life and leading me to the truth of salvation in Jesus Christ.

    Did Holy Spirit "regenerate" me so that I could understand and repent? Perhaps the entire process of conviction, leading to repentance, leading to understanding the gospel, leading to faith in Jesus and His work, leading to indwelling Holy Spirit, leading to transformed life can be called "regeneration".

    If we try too hard to mark the "steps" in the process of salvation, we might be attempting to comprehend spiritual details that cannot be fully understood this side of heaven.

    Peace to you
     
    #32 canadyjd, May 21, 2019
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  13. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Choosing to believe is based on Holy Spirit convicting of sin and leading into the truth of the gospel, imo.

    Peace to you
     
    #33 canadyjd, May 21, 2019
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  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Choosing to repent. You must already believe (be saved) or you would not choose any course of action.
     
    #34 1689Dave, May 21, 2019
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    There are no steps in the salvation process. You believe by grace = no step. And then you repent because you believe and are saved.
     
    #35 1689Dave, May 21, 2019
  16. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Not only did you evade my question with a non-answer but you simply read into the text whatever you want.

    Nobody repented in Acts 11:18. Nobody is said to have believed first and then repented. The verse is there to confirm to Jews that salvation is available to Gentiles.

    I will mark it down that you believe repentance is a work since you call it a fruit, and you have neither denied it isn't a work nor have you answered my question.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
    #36 InTheLight, May 21, 2019
  17. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    #5

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
    #37 InTheLight, May 21, 2019
  18. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    #4

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
    #38 InTheLight, May 21, 2019
  19. GoodTidings

    GoodTidings Well-Known Member

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    Where do Arminians claim that choosing to believe is a "type of sacrament?"

    In addition, all belief is the product of making a choice. If you hear the Gospel you can believe it or not. Belief is always a conscious decision.
     
    #39 GoodTidings, May 21, 2019
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    They don't, but if it quacks and walks like a duck, it probably is.
     
    #40 1689Dave, May 21, 2019
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