Sick And Hungry Christians

Wot about the 9 men who spent years on death row before a STUDENT decided to challenge their convictions? They were all found innocent by dna evidence. They were in prison and all innocent and wold have been killed in Illinois had it not been for a temporary moritorium on the death penalty.

Yes we should have compassion for people in prison as we do for peoples of the world.

Cheers,

Jim

 

We are led to believe that the legal system in America is fair and just. It is not. It is not dependent on alibi, evidence or lack thereof - but how much money you have to afford a proper attorney. In many cases, conviction has nothing to do with guilt, but rather pressure to close a case or because of ethnicity.

 

eloidalmanutha
I am posting right now from a prison of over 6000 inmates. Let me assure you that while not a country club, inmates basic needs are well met everyday. And they are given small privlege things. All medical needs are met imediatly, all clothing is provided, laundered and replaced before I would replace mine. If an inmate can not afford commissary these items are provided, soap, comb, emery board for nails, pen, 25 sheets paper, 5 envilopes, toothpast. All inmates are provided toiletpaper, toothbrushes, razors, beding and clothing. Board games and b balls hand balls etc are provided and replaced periodicly.

Eliod this has been my job for over 10 years. I run a shift in a maximum security building. I have worked every state prison building in my state. I know what I am talking about. Inmates are well taken care of.

If you have any questions, PM me or ask here.

 

This is absolutly not true. Most prisons are cleaner then most low rent apartment complexes. All inmates are well fed and taken care of.

Have you ever spent time in a prison? Your comment is slander on all hard working Correctional Officers. Most of them care very much about doing a good job with involves taking care of and protecting those we are charged with keeping out of society.

You are either geting your info from an inmate who understandably has a biased opinion or you are making it up. But until you know for sure and can make specific allegations you should not post lies.

Off to count

 

We socialize dogs better than we socialize those serving long sentences in prisons. We have 5 national prisons in our area, and whilst Canadian prisons are noted for decent treatment of prisoners, inmates are ill-equipped to face the outside when they are released. Many are happy to return to the only society they understand.

We have made such a mess of the prison system the best thing we could do is open all the doors, let them free, and start over again.

In that these folks are imprisoned, we have an obligation to feed, clothe and take care of their medical and social needs. People on the outside have every opportunity to better themselves with education and jobs.

The goal of the prison systems is not to rehabilitate, it is to incarcerate. Don't get that mixed up. Yes, some programs are made available. Those same programs are made available on the outside as well.

If you examine poverty in our current society, you will instantly see why we have the poor. It is often a life choice. There are obvious exceptions.

I have seen prison "guards" go the extra mile to help inmates. They become personally attached to some and take them under their wing, so to speak. This is not part of the system, it is what some people do, and kudos to them.

We have a responsibility to the world in more ways than just preaching the gospel. If each member of a gospel church simply tithed there would be no shortage of funds to do this social ministry. Whilst the tithe may not be obligatory by scripture, in my mind it is minimal, and we don't start to give until we have tithed.

Cheers,

Jim

 

DeeJay,

While I understand that your experience in Utah prisons may be in an upper standard, this is not the case throughout the US. Most of the prisons in this country have poor health care, uneatable food, and few "amenities".

Prison is a business, therefore; the bottom line is going to be making a profit. Many states are cutting prison food budgets - some even going to two meals a day on weekends and holidays. Most of the food is not worthy of human consumption. Food is also used to manipulate and to punish. The law says that prisoners need to be fed, but the definition of that gets worse as time goes on because of food cuts and as fewer Americans care or are part of active reform groups that will intervene.

Cutting food costs means that food is usually in slop form, lacking taste and substance. What is put in it is questionable. Substandard ingredients are also used - like grade B meats - perhaps most Americans have no clue what this means. Nor is cleanliness an issue - again state laws are a necessity, but after all, it doesn't really matter - prisoners are not real people. I don't suppose I should mention the cockroach issue.

If a prisoner has an outside source of money - say a relative or friend can send in a few bucks -they can always buy food and other items from the commissary. Unfortunately, commissaries are prison run to make a profit. Prices go up regularly and items usually cost more than on the street. Many prisons are no longer allowing incoming food or clothing packages. Everything has to be bought through the commissary at very high prices.

Stamps and envelopes and also are stopped from coming in - another control measure to keep prisoners from being able to communicate with family and friends. Although some have jobs in prison, many do not - salaries [40 hrs a week] for the MONTH range from $16 - $25 as a general rule, some states are higher. I know that Texas does not pay workers, but work is done in exchange for good time off their sentence. Some states are now cutting back on providing stamps - from 8 per month to 2 and no more free envelopes. To you and I a stamp or an envelope is nothing, but to someone who has no income they are like gold. And so trades, gambling, and favors are done in exchange for items that are needed.

Health care is another huge problem. Often, doctors who are unlicensed are providing health care. Many prisoners are also charged a fee for all health care which is added to an account. Any incoming monies to them for clothing, hygiene or food is taken and applied to their account. Also fines are also on account, and the prisoner never receives a dime for incoming funds as it is all applied to the outstanding account. Again, this is a control measure to keep prisoners either angry or driven into further depression.

Another control tactic is lockdown. Where prisoners are kept in their cells for 23/7 from 1 week to 6 months. They are only allowed to leave for a shower 2-3 times a week and for 1 hr a day for some type of supervised activity - like outside rec. Lockdown usually means that your cell is torn apart [literally] to look for contraband - personal items are dumped and pawed through with zero respect for property. Often times items are broken or destroyed in the process.

For punishment, prisoners are place in the "hole". Again this is 23/7 from 30 days to a year or more. Typically 60-90 days. No communication is allowed. They are fed through a slot. They are allowed out 1 hr a day. Showers are 2-3 times a week - nothing is provided but a bar of soap [hotel size to last for a week]. No reading material or personal possessions are allowed except paper, a Bible, and address book - sometimes other reading material, but that is rare - pens and pencils are not allowed - they are given a very stubby flexible pen - like writing with an ink refill, but half that size. Punishment is not just for major altercations but for extremely minor ones. Sometimes mail is not allowed to be delivered, except for newsletters, but no personal letters. This seems to be rare, but does occur.

Most prisoners do not receive any mail, ever. Mail call is the highlight of prison life and is preceived as the highest form of personal encouragement. Mail room rules regarding incoming mail is a joke. Some prisons will not allow an envelope to come in that is over 1 oz. That mail is rejected and the prisoner is usually responsible for mailing it back to the sender. Rules are changed on a whim. What was allowed one day will be sent back the next. Sometimes if an envelope has too many pages, the prisoner will be forced to send it back so it can be divided and sent again with the correct count per envelope. Some evelopes will be rejected because white out was used, or if an address label is used, or if a specific pen is used that is against the rules. Every prison is different - even within each state - there is no common ground on incoming mail and it is mostly at the discretion of the inspector. Nothing can be sent in by envelope other than paper items.

Many prisons do not provide hygiene items other than a bar of soap. No comb, shampoo, toothbrush, or toothpaste. A razor is usually a community one. These items must be purchased through the commissary. This kind of treatment is more common in DR or lifers, than in lesser max facilities, but does exist outside of that venue as well.

Unless you have had specific contact or have visited multiple prisons in every area of the USA, it is unfair to say that prisoners are getting humane treatment in every prison. There are enough articles in every media that has examined, researched, and exposed the travesity that is occurring in the prisons in America - and I did not even touch the tortures, abuse, molestation, and rapes, beatings, mental, physical, emotional and spiritual abuse that is common place behind the walls.

 

thank you - you have nailed it very well. I think the rehabilitation issue is the worst. It does not exist except in the minds of the uninformed and ignorant.

many parole boards will release prisoners who have no chance of making it and withhold release from those who will. prison is a money making business. they want repeat offenders - it keeps prisons full.

many prisons are now deleting educational studies and other programs to assist prisoners. libraries are archaic with very limited use.

no effort is made to train prisoners for release back into society. Especially those who have been incarcerated in the 10-30 year range and up. They are in for a very rude awakening and often times cannot withstand the pressure and stress after living in a controlled and manipulated setting that has forced men and women to lie, cheat, and steal to such a high degree that they have no clue how exist as normal human beings. not to mention the anger and mental issues that are dumped on society that are time bombs waiting to explode.

most of the prisoners that are released have zero contact from the outside, like family and friends. they no place to go, no job, no income, no food. yes, there are social agencies in place to help, but when you are all alone in the world, after coming out of prison, life can be pure hell. mentally and emotionally this cannot be dealt with and they end up back in the system.

 

Eliodal and Jim

First of all I had some of the same ideas 10 years ago, before working here. I dont know where you get your knowlege but I do know it is only a surface knowlege.

Jim, you say we should let them all out and start again. You say this because you know it will not happen. The vast majority can not and do not want to live like normal people. They want to live within their gangs preying on others for their living.

I do agree with alot you said:

Absolutly, we are doing our best.

This is correct. I will add to isolate. To keep those who can not control themselfs away from all of you. If we could cure them we would. We can not.

Yup.

Look, it is very difficult to walk this fine line. You dont want Officers (guards such a low term for someone with my training and experiances)to become to close to inmates. On the other hand we do not want sadistic punishers. We want good people who care but also who can remain semi detached. That is 80% of Correctional officers. I can not count the times in just this last year me and my co workers have seriously placed our safety and sometimes life on the line to save an inmate from further harm.

I agree.

Eliodal

I dont know where you get your information, but I have an idea. Please dont believe every biased opinion you hear. Almost all of what you say is not true. Utah is not specal we are not even above avg. I eat the trays here 3 times a day. We are required to feed 2 meals. We feed three, sometimes on hollidays we feed 2 meals but they are huge meals. Thanksgiving gets three trays for dinner meal, pie, turkey, potatos, gravey, stuffing, roll the works. It is not homecooking it is not restraunt but is is ok, like hospital food. What you are writing is slanderous and not true. Prisons are dangerous places, it is not a picknic here, but staff do their best to make it safe and clean.

If either of you could see what I just seen 30 min ago you would have a different view point. One of my staff is in the hospital right now because he went in to save an inmate from another inmates savgery. Please pray for him.

By the way, if anybody knows how to rehabilitate these people if you can cure them you will make millions upon millions. Please tell me how.

Prisons do not make money, they are state goverment. They spend tax money. I does not matter if there are 60 or 6000 inmates my check is the same. That is like saying street cops want crime so they can make money.

 

Nobody here beleves rehabilitation works. There is absolutly no way to get a child molester to change. Yet we try. Sucessfull rehabilitation of a Meth addic is low. Yet we try. And rehabilitation of gang members is low, their loialty is to the gang at all costs. Everybody knows rehabilitation efforts are a joke. BUt it is not because we dont care. It is because their is no way to do it. It just does not work. The best rehabilitor there is, is age. When a person gets older they lots of times grow out of their ways. They get sick of coming back to prison. You dont have the answers either does that mean you dont care.

Paroll boards reliese inmates because they need the beds. Nobody has to try to keep prisons full. That is a joke, watch the news tonight are you serious. We could fill 40 prisons just like this one if we did not let people go. We want repeat offenders, WHAT why. I guess I am just an evil prison gaurd who prays on those poor fellons. This is insane. Like I said one of my staff is in the hospital right now sent him there 30 min ago. He must have wanted to save that inmate to keep the bed full, so we could make big bucks.

 

DeeJay:
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I have seen prison "guards" go the extra mile to help inmates. They become personally attached to some and take them under their wing, so to speak. This is not part of the system, it is what some people do, and kudos to them.
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This was meant as a compliment of the highest order to chaps like yourself who work within the systems. My highest regards.

Where does my experience come from? I used to help educate inmates one day a week in a maximum security institution, and visted many in all of the 5 prisons in my area over some 32 years. We have many prison workers who live in our community.

I understand what you are saying about rehabilitation, and the very low success rate. The rate would increase if those who had served their time had half a chance on the outside to even get a job. I had a list of companies willing to give them a chance. I interviewed the inmate beforehand and introduced him or her to the prospective employer. Now my reputation is also on the line, but they need this break. I have seen some great successes.

Then, some are beyond redemption, so to speak, and there is no hope outside of Christ.

My remark about opening the gates and releasing all is rather facetious. I said it for shock factor, as you prolly perceived. Many changes must be made in the whole justice system. For example; What purpose was served locking up the likes of popular household madonna? She has plenty of money and talents, and her time would have been better served outside in society using her money and talents to help people. That sort of thing needlessly fills our prisons.

I am afraid I am one of those "jerks" who goes up to parked police officers and other such servants of society and thanks them for their service....I usually get a surprised look...then a smile,,and a thank you.....I do appreciate your services and theirs, and the daily risk you all take for us.

Cheers, and God bless,

Jim

 

Nobody here beleves rehabilitation works. There is absolutly no way to get a child molester to change. Yet we try. Sucessfull rehabilitation of a Meth addic is low. Yet we try. And rehabilitation of gang members is low, their loialty is to the gang at all costs. Everybody knows rehabilitation efforts are a joke. BUt it is not because we dont care. It is because their is no way to do it. It just does not work. The best rehabilitor there is, is age. When a person gets older they lots of times grow out of their ways. They get sick of coming back to prison. You dont have the answers either does that mean you dont care.

Paroll boards reliese inmates because they need the beds. Nobody has to try to keep prisons full. That is a joke, watch the news tonight are you serious. We could fill 40 prisons just like this one if we did not let people go. We want repeat offenders, WHAT why. I guess I am just an evil prison gaurd who prays on those poor fellons. This is insane. Like I said one of my staff is in the hospital right now sent him there 30 min ago. He must have wanted to save that inmate to keep the bed full, so we could make big bucks. </font>[/QUOTE]sorry to disagree - but I have talked directly to parole board members and also to case managers.
what you are missing is that by getting prisoners back into the system [repeat offenders] is that they will than have to build more prisons. you have to think money, money, money - and then everything becomes very clear maybe not for you [although I am told that guards make a nice healthy salary] but there is money to be had and lots of it. prison is big business - you just may not see that side of it, but think about it and compare it to a game of dominoes

sorry to disagree with you again - but no one cares about rehabilitation. certainly there are individuals within the system who do - there are always exceptions. rehabilitation does not work because it does not exist

 

Think about this. First if the goal is building more prisons then why let people go? Makes no sense. Second who is making money. If a state needs another prison it comes out of tax money. PRISONS DO NOT GENERATE MONEY. Prisoners do not pay. Prisons spend money they do not make money. Building new prisons will cost more money and will bring in nothing.

Oh my. I started at $9.00 ten years ago and one advancement to Sgt. later has me at $16.00 In salt lake that is way under pay. Just as a refference a 2 bedroom apartment (nothing fancy) in SLC $800 a month.

Who do you know in prison that is feeding you this incorect information?

I do my job because I care about my community and the felons I take care of. I have some small hope that my life and things I say will make the difference in their lives. You can call me a lier if you wish but you are wrong.

 

Why is it that you choose to believe that the fellons, gang bangers, drug attics, child molesters, are all picked on and being treated badly. Why do you choose to side with them.

On the other hand, I have dedicated my career to protecting my community, and the above fellons, work in a difficult enviroment, stress, low pay. And you choose to believe I am the evil one picking on the above. You have questioned my motives, called me a lier and theif. You have made all kinds of false accusations against a Christian brother.

You still have not told me how you know so much about the place I work every day?

Who do you know that is incarcerated.

 

Why would you say that? There are plenty of Christians who work in this capacity. I was involved in one in the past, and am currently struggling because I selfishly didn't follow a conviction and involve myself in a group out here when asked. (and I got a phone call tonight to go visit someone in prison, and not having joined the group will make it a pain to get in to the person in need)

For the rest: I've been around the block a bit on it. As a victim, as someone who probably should have spent at least a bit of time in there myself but never got caught, and having family in there, and on the ministering part of it.

I hated what was done to me. I hate what my family member did. I was an idiot, but probably hurt myself more than anyone. And...I learned from ministering.
I learned not to hate so much. When I started I said I'd NEVER work with a child molester. I held so much contempt for them.
Guess what? I didn't know at first who I was working with.
The first person I worked with was a child molester. I learned to see him as a person.
I learned to face that it didn't take anymore of Christ's blood for him than it did for me.

And there are some people who will change. Some people who are innocent. Some people who it won't make a bit of difference to.

But...a soul is a soul, whether it's in a spiritual or physical prison, and we're here to do what we can to teach them how to be free in Christ.

 

Have you ever been imprisioned...not allowed to go were you like...does not really matter what they have they are still without the liberty to go as one wills.....been there done that as a mental health detainee, FREEDOM is wonderful, being in a gilded cage is just that, a cage

 

mostly because I am a sucker for the downtrodden. and if I recall I did say that you may not have experienced what is happening across the country.

 

Why would you say that? There are plenty of Christians who work in this capacity. I was involved in one in the past, and am currently struggling because I selfishly didn't follow a conviction and involve myself in a group out here when asked. (and I got a phone call tonight to go visit someone in prison, and not having joined the group will make it a pain to get in to the person in need)

For the rest: I've been around the block a bit on it. As a victim, as someone who probably should have spent at least a bit of time in there myself but never got caught, and having family in there, and on the ministering part of it.

I hated what was done to me. I hate what my family member did. I was an idiot, but probably hurt myself more than anyone. And...I learned from ministering.
I learned not to hate so much. When I started I said I'd NEVER work with a child molester. I held so much contempt for them.
Guess what? I didn't know at first who I was working with.
The first person I worked with was a child molester. I learned to see him as a person.
I learned to face that it didn't take anymore of Christ's blood for him than it did for me.

And there are some people who will change. Some people who are innocent. Some people who it won't make a bit of difference to.

But...a soul is a soul, whether it's in a spiritual or physical prison, and we're here to do what we can to teach them how to be free in Christ. </font>[/QUOTE]I was speaking in general to get some dialogue going. I am well aware that there are some good ministries going on. But there are not enough. the church has fallen far short.

I totally agree with the rest of your post - you are right on. It's always good to see someone else who is on the same page