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John Bunyan was No Calvinist

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by rockytopva, Jun 15, 2019.

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  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    John Bunyan was a non-conformist. He said in his works that, "sometimes men call me Anabaptist," but he never claimed to be one. He was what we would call today non-denominational.

    John Calvin....

    1. Was out to control and to dominate - John Bunyan was not
    2. Would kill you over doctrine - John Bunyan would not
    3. Would lock you up if you slighted him - John Bunyan would be the one locked up

    John Bunyan in his young years was slothful for the things of heaven himself. In his Grace Abounding book Bunyan notes how he picked up the habit of swearing (from his father), suffered from nightmares, and read the popular stories of the day in cheap chap-books, "Until I came to the state of Marriage, I was the very ringleader of all the Youth that kept me company, in all manner of vice and ungodliness".

    By his own account, Bunyan had as a youth enjoyed bell-ringing, dancing and playing games including on Sunday. One Sunday the vicar of Elstow preached a sermon against Sabbath breaking, and Bunyan took this sermon to heart. That afternoon, as he was playing tip-cat on Elstow village green, he heard a voice from the heavens "Wilt thou leave thy sins, and go to Heaven? Or have thy sins, and go to Hell?" Bunyan then joins the Bedford Free Church movement and begins to take his religion more seriously, and to write and to preach, until the restoration of the monarchy in 1660. The act of Uniformity would put him at odds against the English establishment and almost get him deported. John Bunyan spent most his years at odds against the established church. John Bunyan's life at that point was a run from the life of sin. So told in the Pilgrims Progress, The Heavenly Footman, and other books. At one point he declares, "and some call me Anabaptist" but he never confessed of becoming Anabaptist. I am sure John Calvin would have had John Bunyan locked up in prison if he lived long enough to get his hands on him. John Bunyan's ministry can be summarized as a run from the life of sin, and can be summarized with this short work....
     
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  2. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    THE EPISTLE TO ALL THE SLOTHFUL AND CARELESS PEOPLE

    Friends,

    Solomon saith, that The desire of the slothful killeth him; and if so, what will slothfulness itself do to those that entertain it? (Prov 21:25). The proverb is, He that sleepeth in harvest is a son that causeth shame (Prov 10:5). And this I dare be bold to say, no greater shame can befall a man, than to see that he hath fooled away his soul, and sinned away eternal life. And I am sure this is the next way to do it; namely, to be slothful; slothful, I say, in the work of salvation. The vineyard of the slothful man, in reference to the things of this life, is not fuller of briars, nettles, and stinking weeds, than he that is slothful for heaven, hath his heart full of heart-choaking and soul-damning sin.

    Slothfulness hath these two evils: First, To neglect the time in which it should be getting of heaven; and by that means doth, in the Second place, bring in untimely repentance. I will warrant you, that he who shall lose his soul in this world through slothfulness, will have no cause to be glad thereat when he comes to hell.

    Slothfulness is usually accompanied with carelessness, and carelessness is for the most part begotten by senselessness; and senselessness doth again put fresh strength into slothfulness, and by this means the soul is left remediless.

    Slothfulness shutteth out Christ; slothfulness shameth the soul (Cant 5:2-4; Prov 13:4).

    Slothfulness, it is condemned even by the feeblest of all the creatures. Go to the ant, thou sluggard, consider her ways and be wise (Prov 6:6). The sluggard will not plow by reason of the cold (20:4); that is, he will not break up the fallow ground of his heart, because there must be some pains taken by him that will do it; therefore shall he beg in harvest, that is, when the saints of God shall have their glorious heaven and happiness given to them; but the sluggard shall have nothing, that is, be never the better for his crying for mercy, according to that in Matthew 25:10-12.

    If you would know a sluggard in the things of heaven, compare him with one that is slothful in the things of this world. As,
    1. He that is slothful is loth to set about the work he should follow: so is he that is slothful for heaven.
    2. He that is slothful is one that is willing to make delays: so is he that is slothful for heaven.
    3. He that is a sluggard, any small matter that cometh in between, he will make it a sufficient excuse to keep him off from plying his work: so it is also with him that is slothful for heaven.
    4. He that is slothful doth his work by the halves; and so it is with him that is slothful for heaven. He may almost, but he shall never altogether obtain perfection of deliverance from hell; he may almost, but he shall never, without he mend, be altogether a saint.
    5. They that are slothful, do usually lose the season in which things are to be done: and thus it is also with them that are slothful for heaven, they miss the season of grace. And therefore,
    6. They that are slothful have seldom or never good fruit: so also it will be with the soul-sluggard.
    7. They that are slothful they are chid for the same: so also will Christ deal with those that are not active for him. Thou wicked or slothful servant, out of thine own mouth will I judge thee; thou saidst I was thus, and thus, wherefore then gavest not thou my money to the bank? &c. (Luke 19:22). Take the unprofitable servant, and cast him into utter darkness, where shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matt 25:26-30).

    WHAT SHALL I SAY? Time runs; and will you be slothful? Much of your lives are past; and will you be slothful? Your souls are worth a thousand worlds; and will you be slothful? The day of death and judgment is at the door; and will you be slothful? The curse of God hangs over your heads; and will you be slothful? Besides, the devils are earnest, laborious, and seek by all means every day, by every sin, to keep you out of heaven, and hinder you of salvation; and will you be slothful? Also your neighbours are diligent for things that will perish; and will you be slothful for things that will endure for ever? Would you be willing to be damned for slothfulness? Would you be willing the angels of God should neglect to fetch your souls away to heaven when you lie a-dying, and the devils stand by ready to scramble for them? Was Christ slothful in the work of your redemption? Are his ministers slothful in tendering this unto you? And, lastly, If all this will not move, I tell you God will not be slothful or negligent to damn you, whose damnation now of a long time slumbereth not, nor the devils will not neglect to fetch thee, nor hell neglect to shut it's mouth upon thee.

    Sluggard, art thou asleep still? art thou resolved to sleep the sleep of death? Wilt neither tidings from heaven or hell awake thee? Wilt thou say still, Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, and a little folding of the hands to sleep? (Prov 6:10). Wilt thou yet turn thyself in thy sloth, as the door is turned upon the hinges? O that I was one that was skillful in lamentation, and had but a yearning heart towards thee, how would I pity thee! How would I bemoan thee! O that I could with Jeremiah let my eyes run down with rivers of water for thee! Poor soul, lost soul, dying soul, what a hard heart have I that I cannot mourn for thee! If thou shouldst lose but a limb, a child, or a friend, it would not be so much, but poor man it is THY SOUL; if it was to lie in hell but for a day, but for a year, nay, ten thousand years, it would (in comparison) be nothing. But O it is for ever! O this cutting EVER! What a soul-amazing word will that be, which saith, Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING fire! &c.

    Object. But if I should set in, and run as you would have me, then I must run from all my friends; for none of them are running that way.
    Answ. And if thou dost, thou wilt run into the bosom of Christ and of God, and then what harm will that do thee?
    Object. But if I run this way, then I must run from all my sins.
    Answ. That is true indeed; yet if thou dost not, thou wilt run into hell-fire.
    Object. But if I run this way, then I shall be hated, and lose the love of my friends and relations, and of those that I expect benefit from, or have reliance on, and I shall be mocked of all my neighbours.
    Answ. And if thou dost not, thou art sure to lose the love and favour of God and Christ, the benefit of heaven and glory, and be mocked of God for thy folly, I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; and if thou wouldst not be hated and mocked, then take heed thou by thy folly dost not procure the displeasure and mockings of the great God; for his mocks and hatred will be terrible, because they will fall upon thee in terrible times, even when tribulation and anguish taketh hold on thee; which will be when death and judgment comes, when all the men in the earth, and all the angels in heaven, cannot help thee (Prov 1:26-28).
    Object. But surely I may begin this time enough, a year or two hence, may I not?
    Answ. 1. Hast thou any lease of thy life? Did ever God tell thee thou shalt live half a year, or two months longer? nay, it may be thou mayst not live so long. And therefore, 2. Wilt thou be so sottish and unwise, as to venture thy soul upon a little uncertain time? 3. Dost thou know whether the day of grace will last a week longer or no? For the day of grace is past with some before their life is ended: and if it should be so with thee, wouldst thou not say, O that I had begun to run before the day of grace had been past, and the gates of heaven shut against me. But, 4. If thou shouldst see any of thy neighbours neglect the making sure of either house or land to themselves, if they had it proffered to them, saying, Time enough hereafter, when the time is uncertain; and besides, they do not know whether ever it will be proffered to them again, or no: I say, Wouldst thou not then call them fools? And if so, then dost thou think that thou art a wise man to let thy immortal soul hang over hell by a thread of uncertain time, which may soon be cut asunder by death?

    But to speak plainly, all these are the words of a slothful spirit. Arise man, be slothful no longer; set foot, and heart, and all into the way of God, and run, the crown is at the end of the race; there also standeth the loving fore-runner, even Jesus, who hath prepared heavenly provision to make thy soul welcome, and he will give it thee with a willinger heart than ever thou canst desire it of him. O therefore do not delay the time any longer, but put into practice the words of the men of Dan to their brethren, after they had seen the goodness of the land of Canaan: Arise, say they, &c., for we have seen the land, and behold it is very good; and are ye still, or do you forbear running? Be not slothful to go, and to enter to possess the land (Judg 18:9).

    Farewell. I wish our souls may meet with comfort at the journey's end.

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    John Bunyan was a Calvinist in his soteriology. He was a Baptist in everything else. You are seeking a fight that I will not give you. I am just stating what Bunyan's soteriology was for the record. I will not post again in this thread.
     
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  4. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    I attended a Free Will Baptist church while going to college. One evening we had a footwashing / communion service. Having never been to one my flesh fought me all the way to church that night. During the service there was such tears and shouting, wow! They would pray over you as they washed the feet and it was really a dramatic sight. It was really done decent and there was such a clean spiritual sensation afterwards as I cannot describe.

    It would have done John Calvin good to have attended a footwashing service done right. Especially to wash away all that hatred, strife, and animosity!
     
  5. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    I thought this thread was about Bunyan, not Calvin.

    As to Bunyan, yes, he was a Puritan (Calvinist). There is some disagreement as to whether he was High Calvinist or Amyraldian, but please read Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners to understand his soteriology.
     
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  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am more familiar with his brother, Paul. He was a mighty man, a mighty man was he.
     
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  7. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Ah, the no true Calvinist fallacy.

    "Well, no true Calvinist would not murder his enemies..."
     
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  8. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    1. John Bunyan possessed the spirituality he professed
    2. John Calvin did not.

    In my own Pentecostal Holiness church I know many who have graduated the cemetery (oops! I meant seminary) and come out of there all John Calvin like. Possessing not the spirituality they profess through the mind.

    1. John Bunyan I love
    2. John Calvin I do not

    It is one thing to understand doctrine... It is another thing for it to take hold inside the spiritual man. Two men I love...

    1. Baptist - Lester Roloff
    2. Pentecostal - RW Schambach

    Simply because these gentlemen possessed the spirituality they professed.
     
  9. Acts2.21

    Acts2.21 Member

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    John Calvin himself was never a Five Point Calvinist! He never taught the L of T.U.L.I.P.
     
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  10. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    No, he didn't. Yet it seems that he thought the extent of the atonement was universal it was efficacious only for the elect (essentially the earlier position of Peter Lombard).
     
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  11. Acts2.21

    Acts2.21 Member

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    John Calvin on John 3:16

    "That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life."

    On Mark 14:24

    "Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race"

    It is interesting that these words spoken by Jesus were at the institution of the Lord's Supper, at which Judas was also present, as Luke tells us in his more detailed account. So, here Calvin says that the "many" refers to "the whole human race", which must also include Judas!

    And, on Colossians 1:14

    "He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated"

    Clearly Calvin taught here the universal extent of Jesus' death, for the "whole human race"!
     
  12. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Yes, but the extent of the atonement was not coterminous with its efficacy. That is, the actual benefit of the atonement was available only to the elect.
     
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  13. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    If there is no further discussion on Bunyan, I will close this thread because a new thread has been opened on Calvin and limited/universal atonement.
     
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    We've walked all over Greenville and North Greenvill University today.

    My Bunyans hurt.
     
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  15. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    On that uplifting note the thread is now closed. Too bad no one wanted to talk about whether Bunyan was really a Baptist ...
     
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