If tongues were to cease at the end of the world, why would Paul need to mention it?

Quote us some documentation then.

 

Why not read a book William Seymour actually wrote and judge for yourself?

https://www.amazon.com/Doctrines-Di...f+Los+Angeles&qid=1561050809&s=gateway&sr=8-1


In which you will read in the product description....

William J. Seymour, the son of former slaves, was the founder and pastor of the famed Azusa Street Mission in Los Angeles, California from 1906 until his death in 1922. God used this humble servant to initiate and lead the revival that spread Pentecost around the world. Reared in reconstruction Louisiana in the 1870s and 1880s, Seymour's early life was marked by poverty, prejudice, and oppression. His opportunities for formaleducation were very limited. Yet, this man's ministry changed the religious world. Christian History Magazine listed Seymour as one of the ten most importantChristian's of the twentieth century.

Seymour was baptized in the Roman Catholic Church, converted in Methodism, sanctified in the Church of God Reformation movement, and then introduced to the Apostolic Faith or Pentecostal message in 1905. He took that message to Los Angeles in 1906. In addition to founding the mission at 312 Azusa Street, Seymour traveledand helped to establish and organize other missions across the country. The Doctrine and Discipline was intended to be a policy and polity guide for all theApostolic Faith Missions under Seymour's guidance. It contains sections on doctrine,the Christian family, the church, the ministry, and other subjects. Also included are forms that Seymour used for weddings, funerals, the installation of church officers, and more. A copy of the church's constitution and by-laws will be interesting to those curious about the formation of the Azusa Street Mission.

This is the only book ever written by Seymour. Published in 1915, the original book is extremely rare. This reprint makes the book available to the public for the first time in 85 years. Although Seymour's original thought is included, much of the book is acompilation from other church disciplines in the Wesleyan tradition. Even the borrowed material, edited by Seymour, gives insight into the traditons of the Azusa Street Mission.

Larry Martin, editor, has reogranized the book into a style that today's readers will find more enjoyable. He has also made some corrections in spelling and grammar, being careful to change none of the original author's intent. All of the original is included in this reprint. In the foreword for the book, Bishop Carlton Pearson wrote, "This tremendous, book, the information of which has been lost to the masses for many years, gives you unique insight into the heart and mind of the man through whom it all began . . ."

 

In which I read in this book... William Seymour believed that the real miracle on the Day of Pentecost was the outpouring of so much godly love on three thousand people from “every nation under heaven.” The unity Jesus prayed for in John 17 was dramatically realized between ethnic lines. The gift of tongues was merely a means of communicating that love. And so for Seymour, a love that could unite people of all nationalities was all what mattered. He said that if people weren’t expressing the I Corinthians 13 kind of love, then, “I care not how many tongues you may have, you have not the baptism with the Holy Spirit.” As far as Seymour was concerned, the blood of Jesus washed away the color line in Christ’s church. The Foot Washing service, conducted righteously and regularly, ought to help remedy the bad motives that so easily beset us.

And William Seymour warned that, “Whenever the doctrine of the baptism in the Holy Ghost will only be known as the evidence of speaking in tongues, that work will be an open door for witches and spiritualist and free loveism. That work will suffer because all kinds of spirits can come in.”

The Ordinances of the Azusa Street Mission were Basically Seven….

Justification by faith – We are saved, or justified, by simple faith in Christ.
Sanctification - As a second definite work of grace upon the heart and evidenced by the sweet spirit of Christ in the experience and a Holy life! Nothing on Voodoo or witchcraft here!
The Baptism in the Holy Ghost - is a gift of power upon the sanctified life, anointing it in service and in work, with the speaking in tongues as one of the signs following’ in the baptized believer along with casting out devils, healing the sick and the fruits of the Spirit accompanying the signs.
Marriage – As a holy union between a man and a woman.
Water Baptism – On those who have reached the age of accountability
Communion - “We believe in the ordinance of the Lord’s supper as instituted by Jesus and followed by the apostles, and teach that it should be frequently observed in holy reverence.”
Foot Washing - “We believe in feet washing as an ordinance, as it was established by our Master before the Lord’s supper, according to John 13:4-18, and believe it was practiced by the Apostles and disciples through the First Century” (1 Tim. 5:10).

If such ordinances are observed, in which more times than not they are not, then the experience can be genuine.. Most Pentecostal Holiness churches, to which I belong, have gotten away from Holy living, so I cannot say that such experiences
can be found in my church as they were in times past.

 

Remembering my old pastor of the Merrimac Pentecostal Holiness church. As a teenager I would....

1. Work the restaurant of the morning
2. Farm during the afternoon
3. Revival at night
4. Youth retreats on the weekend
5. Church Sunday morning and night

He kept a bottle of anointing oil there on the pulpit and always took time to pray for people. He was also a good father and husband at home and all his kids turned out good. He loved good preaching and would get a variety of ministers to hold revival, which made going to church exciting.



I am working on a video to give tribute to our old pastor. I remember putting up hay with the local farmers and going to the revival, which seems like we had every month with our old pastor . Back in those days every ones spiritual experience was unique as were the evangelist. It was exciting going to church not knowing what God was going to do next. My story is like George Clark Rankins 100 years before me and the Merrimac Pentecostal Holiness church was like the old Methodist church 100 years before them. And in the words of George Clark Rankin…

"As we returned home the sun shone brighter, the birds sang sweeter and the autumn-time looked richer than ever before. My heart was light and my spirit buoyant. I had anchored my soul in the haven of rest, and there was not a ripple upon the current of my joy. That night there was no service and after supper I walked out under the great old pine trees and held communion with God. I thought of mother, and home, and Heaven.

"I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life." – George Clark Rankin, 1866 - The Life of George Clark Rankin

It was sad for me to see this way of life going the way of the Laodicean church age in my lifetime.

 

The old arabic traders used to refer to the Vikings as the nastiest of God's creation. Are we to assume the Nordic race are still that way?

 

The Pentecostal revival went on without Seymour and Parham.

I am white, single, never married, tough luck going in, of Scottish descent, and at one time a very negative guy. In the 1990's our factory hired several VT football players who were all black and of Word of Faith Pentecostal doctrine. In all my years of knowing these guys I have never once heard the first negative word out of their mouth, everything they spoke was faith. They called me, "McCwowt" and would say things like...

"Do you know what over comes fear McCwowt? Action! Action overcomes fear"

"I'm getting out of here McCwowt" And then lay out some plan of escape. They would also come to me saying...

"What are you believing God for McCwowt?" And expect some great plan that would bring joy to their hearts.

They were also very schooled in the Word of Faith. If you had any pains at all they would offer to pray for you right then and there. They also broke me of my negative talk and for that I am eternally grateful. There is another thing they use to say...

"Good fellowship makes you strong."

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

It is important to practice spirituality, in hopes, by some alchemy of spirit, that it becomes genuine. I would also say that faith and hope are free gifts available to all. You can sit down and imagine free of charge.

Faith in Christ + Spiritual E/c2 = A victorious Christian life that will bring God glory. Some have it, some don’t.

 

But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. - Matthew 12:24

The Pharisees were saying that the Lord Jesus Christ did his miracles by the devil, when of matter of fact he was doing miracles through the power of the Holy Spirit. He told them that such sins against the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven. It is a dangerous thing to say that a Christian is not speaking in tongues through the Power of the Holy Spirit, but it is something else, or Voodoo. You are not belittling the Christian, but his underlying power, which is the Holy Spirit. So it is a dangerous thing to say someone has not the Holy Spirit, but a devil, when in reality it is the Holy Spirit.

 

I must say here that I am a Wesleyan Pentecostal. I believe that there are three steps required for the ultimate Chrsitian spiritual walk.

1. Salvation - Very easy! Believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved.
2. Sanctification - The process between Salvation and the Baptism in the Holy Spirit
3. Baptism in the Holy Spirit - Many get this with speaking in tongues.

One of my favorite Pentecostals was in the person of Smith Wigglesworth.

1. Born in 1859
2. Saved at age 8 at a Wesleyan Methodist revival
3. Experienced Christ anew at a Salvation Army revival as a teenager
4. Married and opened a mission at age 23 in 1882
5. Claimed sanctification at the age of 34 in 1893 as taught by the Keswick preachers
6. Filled with the Holy Spirit with tongues in 1907 at the age of 48
7. Became a world-wide evangelist in 1913 at the age of 54.

So it took Smith Wigglesworth a long time to get through the sanctifying process, but once he did he became a mighty man of God. And some notes I have taken from Smith Wigglesworth books...

Smith Wigglesworth also emphasizes that the Giver is to be received before the gifts. Salvation always precedes sanctification, and sanctification will always precede the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Sanctification prepares the body for the Holy Spirit, and when the body is rightly prepared for the Holy Spirit, and then it is the work of Jesus to baptize with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit then makes Jesus king in your life; you regard him as Lord and Master over all things, and you become submissive to him in all things. You are not afraid to say, “You are mine! I love you!”

Smith Wigglesworth, like his earlier Methodist mentors, believed sanctification as something that sweetens the spirit up, making people more spiritual and loving. His wife once testified that she knew Smith was sanctified when he quit complaining about his food. Wigglesworth states that we are sanctified so that nothing hinders us in the manifestation of the Glory of God. In this way we are robbed of all pride, evil, and freely led of the Spirit. Evil thoughts come from the unclean believer, the man who is not entirely sanctified.

Wigglesworth also stresses obedience as a fruit of sanctification. "The Word is to be swallowed, not prayed over! If you ever pray over the Word of God there is some disobedience; where there is some disobedience; you are not willing to obey. If you come into the election of the sanctification of the Spirit, you will be obedient in everything concerning that Word. In the measure you are not obedient, you have not come into the sanctification of the Spirit". – Smith Wigglesworth, New Zealand, 1922

“The difference between those being led by the Holy Spirit and those who are deceived by Satan is joy, gladness, and a good countenance instead of sadness, sorrow, and depression. Jesus comes with joy into the soul and lifts you higher and higher, it is the spirit who gives light. When satanic power begins to rule; then there is weariness, then people’s faces are like a tragedy, and then their eyes glare as though they have passed through a terrible trial. You are always right to test the spirits (1 John 4:1), if not you will be sure to be caught napping.” – Smith Wigglesworth

 

As long as we are in the flesh we all have issues. The Apostle Paul found fault with the very Apostle Peter...

11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. - Galatians 2

In which the proper thing to do is to speak to the individual about it...

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? - Galatians 2

We all have our issues... In which my take of the seven church ages...

Ephesus - Apostolic - We all like to think our church is the closest to the Apostolic!
Smyrna - Martyr - Early Orthodox formed in this time.
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

The churches had their issues.

Ephesus - Apostolic - Left their first love. The Apostle Paul writes of all Asia as of having forsaken him.
Smyrna - Martyr - Foxes has the persecutions as ten. Very little issue with the martyred church.
Pergamos - Orthodoxy - The Nicolaitanes - There were barbaric issues as we are in the time of the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate. I do not believe this spirit any longer in the Catholic church.
Sardis - Protestantism A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid - Doctrine in the head... Little in the heart
Philadelphia - Wesleyism - "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out:" No more go out - They were in and out of revival. Which is a big issue. Homer Rodeheaver, music minister for Billy Sunday, joked about his “backsliding Methodist trombone” and I have heard preachers joke that the difference between the Methodist (Philadelphian) and the Baptist (Sardisean) was that the Baptist did not believe in backsliding but the Methodist practice it, which is a bad thing.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

In which, again, we all have our issues. There are no perfect Christians or churches. You can find issue with each one. The Christian that I find least fault in was John Bunyan. As far as the man to whom God looks...

For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. - Isaiah 66:2

There are many no-names out there whom we will never know, but are dear to God.

 

I believe we are living in the Laodicean church age in which the shoe of the passage fits the horse of the times.

 

I too felt at one time that Pentecostalism was of the devil.

Pictured below is farmer I would work for in the hay field... Dallas would shout at work, shout in the hay field, and shout in church. He would also speak in tongues and run the aisles. He and his wife would operate a dairy farm and he would also work at the local ammunition plant. A very large soul his shouting would ring through the building. In the altar services he would kneel behind me in prayer and tears would roll off his cheek and onto my shoulders. A wonderfully large soul. Along with Dallas there were many others like him who would let the praises roll during church service. During the altar service old Evans Linkous used to weep like a baby. And if he were to look back to catch the amazed look in my eye he would weep, "The Holy Ghost! The Holy Ghost!" And point to all the souls being blessed around the altar. After I experienced these things for myself the people would make a fuss, or in the words of the Apostle Paul, glorify God in me.

Dallas.... Jesus in the family! What a happy home!

And the old Merrimac Pentecostal Holiness church. I have never heard such singing , preaching, and shouting anywhere else in my entire life!

 

Having experienced the wonder Holy Spirit in my own life I have nothing to study and know this is not Voodoo. Though the Pentecostal revival has not been without her faults, these faults are normally a result of folks going out of the Spirit and into the flesh.And with the flesh we have the old Pharisee - Sadducee (note - Sad-You-See) nature.

I want my faith to stand in the actual power of the Holy Spirit and not in some doctrine of a fleshly natured man.

And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power. That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 2:4-5

I have sensed the Holy Spirit in the Baptist church and do not wish to indicate he is not there. I must point out though that the actual Holy Spirit comes with spiritual fruit....

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. - Galatians 5:22-24

People possessed with the actual Holy Spirit also are not prone to the flesh, especially the spirit of variance, which is strife. The anointing of God also does not come with ego, which is the original sin of the devil.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.. - Galatians 5:19-21

Witchcraft and Voodoo was not practiced at Azusa Street and this is a false allegation.

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