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If tongues were to cease at the end of the world, why would Paul need to mention it?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by 1689Dave, Apr 20, 2019.

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  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Some churches have even done away with the altar service. In my dad’s Lutheran church they have communion where everyone goes to the altar to receive after the sermon. What happened where people no longer feel the necessities of an altar?
     
  2. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    The origins of the Pentecostal revival were Methodist. The Cripple Creek Camp meeting, the old and glorious Methodist Way, as told by George Clark Rankin and David Sullins....

    The Life of David Sullins

    The Life of George Clark Rankin


    Here are some of the rules to govern the Cripple Creek Camp meeting around 1823....
    [​IMG]


    The document above contains the rules to governthe Cripple Creek camp meeting on the 12th day of September, 1823.

    On the ninth rule it is stated, “No persons or persons are to occupy the stand except the preachers and the exhorters.” The Methodist in those days had a class of minister called exhorters. These so called “Exhorters” would encourage and help breathe life into the camp meeting of the day. And what importance they put on exhortation as the exhorter class had a place with the preachers and evangelists!

    On the fourteenth rule it is stated that females sit on the left hand from the stand and the males on the right. This was stated also in David Sullins time as a way to keep order in the service.

    Pictured below is Robert Sheffey, who was more of the exhorter than the preacher. It was said of him in The Life of George Clark Rankin and beginning on page 239...

    I passed my examinations and that year I was sent to the Wytheville Station and Circuit. That was adjoining my former charge. We reached the old parsonage on the pike just out of Wytheville as Rev. B. W. S. Bishop moved out. Charley Bishop was then a little tow-headed boy. He is now the learned Regent of Southwestern University. The parsonage was an old two-and-a-half-story structure with nine rooms and it looked a little like Hawthorne's house with the seven gables. It was the lonesomest-looking old house I ever saw. There was no one there to meet us, for we had not notified anybody of the time we would arrive.

    Think of taking a young bride to that sort of a mansion! But she was brave and showed no sign of disappointment. That first night we felt like two whortleberries in a Virginia tobacco wagonbed. We had room and to spare, but it was scantily furnished with specimens as antique as those in Noah's ark. But in a week or so we were invited out to spend the day with a good family, and when we went back we found the doors fastened just as we had left them, but when we entered a bedroom was elegantly furnished with everything modern and the parlor was in fine shape. The ladies had been there and done the work. How much does the preacher owe to the good women of the Church!

    The circuit was a large one, comprising seventeen appointments. They were practically scattered all over the county. I preached every other day, and never less than twice and generally three times on Sunday.

    I had associated with me that year a young collegemate, Rev. W. B. Stradley. He was a bright, popular fellow, and we managed to give Wytheville regular Sunday preaching. Stradley became a great preacher and died a few years ago while pastor of Trinity Church, Atlanta, Georgia. We were true yokefellows and did a great work on that charge, held fine revivals and had large ingatherings.

    The famous Cripple Creek Campground was on that work. They have kept up campmeetings there for more than a hundred years. It is still the great rallying point for the Methodists of all that section. I have never heard such singing and preaching and shouting anywhere else in my life. I met the Rev. John Boring there and heard him preach. He was a well-known preacher in the conference; original, peculiar, strikingly odd, but a great revival preacher.

    One morning in the beginning of the service he was to preach and he called the people to prayer. He prayed loud and long and told the Lord just what sort of a meeting we were expecting and really exhorted the people as to their conduct on the grounds. Among other things, he said we wanted no horse- trading and then related that just before kneeling he had seen a man just outside the encampment looking into the mouth of a horse and he made such a peculiar sound as he described the incident that I lifted up my head to look at him, and he was holding his mouth open with his hands just as the man had done in looking into the horse's mouth! But he was a man of power and wrought well for the Church and for humanity.

    The rarest character I ever met in my life I met at that campmeeting in the person of Rev. Robert Sheffy, known as "Bob" Sheffy. He was recognized all over Southwest Virginia as the most eccentric preacher of that country. He was a local preacher; crude, illiterate, queer and the oddest specimen known among preachers. But he was saintly in his life, devout in his experience and a man of unbounded faith. He wandered hither and thither over that section attending meetings, holding revivals and living among the people. He was great in prayer, and Cripple Creek campground was not complete without "Bob" Sheffy. They wanted him there to pray and work in the altar.

    He was wonderful with penitents. And he was great in following up the sermon with his exhortations and appeals. He would sometimes spend nearly the whole night in the straw with mourners; and now and then if the meeting lagged he would go out on the mountain and spend the entire night in prayer, and the next morning he would come rushing into the service with his face all aglow shouting at the top of his voice. And then the meeting always broke loose with a floodtide.

    He could say the oddest things, hold the most unique interviews with God, break forth in the most unexpected spasms of praise, use the homeliest illustrations, do the funniest things and go through with the most grotesque performances of any man born of woman.

    It was just "Bob" Sheffy, and nobody thought anything of what he did and said, except to let him have his own way and do exactly as he pleased. In anybody else it would not have been tolerated for a moment. In fact, he acted more like a crazy man than otherwise, but he was wonderful in a meeting. He would stir the people, crowd the mourner's bench with crying penitents and have genuine conversions by the score. I doubt if any man in all that conference has as many souls to his credit in the Lamb's Book of Life as old "Bob" Sheffy.

    [​IMG]
     
    #142 rockytopva, Jun 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Of course you know what I think of this.
     
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:22–23 (KJV 1900)
     
  5. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 2 1:5
     
  6. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Well... Every Christian belief is a heresy in the eyes of some other. But... The time is short when we find out when the Lord separates the good hearted wheat from the evil hearted tares.
     
  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    We'll see. I did not hear one doctrine taught by Pentecostals that I didn't prove wrong in my subsequent studies.
     
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The power of God or the power of voodoo?
     
  9. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    You have no proof of Voodoo. And I would be very careful of the lies I make of others....

    But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. - Revelation 21:8
     
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It is history. In Africa the voodoo cults combined it with Catholicism. In America, they did the same, but also combined it with the Baptist doctrines, and Methodist doctrines. Until Seymour combined it with Wesley Methodism at Azusa St. The Church of God Anderson kicked him out for it. They thought voodoo and Christianity were the same thing and when they saw "Tongues" mentioned in scripture, they really took off with it. And the biblically naive swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
     
  11. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Such false allegations make for witch hunts which results in the deaths of innocent people. And this is the way of John Calvin also, who burnt Michael Servetus alive ....

    "Servetus has just sent me a long volume of his ravings. If I consent he will come here, but I will not give my word; for if he comes here, if my authority is worth anything, I will never permit him to depart alive" - John Calvin

    Jesus’ teaching to “love your enemies” didn’t stop Calvin from killing them. Paul’s instructions for dealing with people who theologically disagree with you were ignored: “A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth” (2 Timothy 2:24-25). Calvin authorized beheadings, death by fire, and torture rather than exercise patience and kindness with competing theologians. His enforcement of biblical doctrines looked more like ISIS than Jesus. - John Calvin justified killing his theological opponents with the Bible

    “Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death, knowingly and willingly incur their guilt. It is not human authority that speaks, it is God who speaks and prescribes a perpetual rule for His Church.” - John Calvin

    I am thankful that Calvinism is in the minority otherwise we would have beheadings, death by fire, and torture which would make the ISIS look saintly in comparison.
     
  12. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    John Bunyan's method of a full salvation... In which the witness of the Spirit is picked up at the Porter's House. And how I would teach the doctrine....

    1. Salvation - As the Christian leaves the City of Destruction and makes his way to the Celestial City.
    2. Sanctification - At the interpreter's house
    3. The Witness of the Spirit - At the porter's house

    The City of Destruction The place where evangelists set people on their journey to the Celestial City
    The Slough of Despair This represents the mire that well intentioned religious people bring to the way
    Legalities Mountain The enemy attempt to indoctrinate pilgrims with doctrine designed to inhibit spiritual light
    Plain of Instruction The evangelist sets the pilgrim on the right direction from the “Mr. Worldly Wiseman”
    The Wicket Gate The sinners prayer. Salvation.... The pilgrim now enters into the Lord’s country
    The Interpreters House This is a time of instruction where caring people instruct and disciple. Sanctification.
    Porters House The journey to a higher place where one receives the witness of the spirit.
    Valley of Humiliation Time for some trials and testing!
    Valley of the Shadow of Death Time to overcome the wicked one!
    Vanity Fair Discipled and proven Christians now witness to their present world.
    Doubting Castle Christians choose path that takes them down to the terrible giant despair.
    Lucre Mountain Temptations of material goods
    Demas Silver Mines Represents those trapped by their material possessions and come to a place of all work.
    Delectable Mountains Represents revival and a season of refreshing
    An Entangling Net The flatterers will try to flatter pilgrims unto a place of high minded spiritual bondage
    Enchanted Ground ground to a sound spiritual sleep!
    Beulah Land Experienced Christian faith, hope, and charity that shine brightly night and day!
    Great River The river flows through various places in the Pilgrims Progress and represents death.
    Final Destination After crossing the river, either the Celestial City or the Underworld… Which will it be?
     
  13. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    "He that wandereth out of the way of understanding, shall remain in the congregation of the dead." Pro 21:16 - John Bunyan’s Pilgrims Progress.

    It is too easy of a thing to wonder out of the way. I hate it happens.
     
  14. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 2:30 AM Pacific.
     
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Those who know Christ love the truth and want all they can get. The history of Pentecostalism tells a much different story that many would rather hide from and deny. No matter where you begin, scripture condemns it as a false version of early Christianity. History heaps more evidence on top of this. And today's bizarre escapades presented to the public by Pentecostals themselves further underscore their folly.
     
  16. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    This thread is closed.
     
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