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How Free Will Turns the Gospel into Law and Grace into Works.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 1689Dave, Jul 16, 2019.

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  1. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Faith enabling us to believe is from God. It is our free will to exercise that faith correctly
     
    #201 loDebar, Jul 19, 2019
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” Philippians 2:13 (KJV 1900) Let's give God the glory for anything we get right.
     
    #202 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    God reckons faith as righteousness. He reckons Adam's sin ans ours. He reckons Christ's righteousness as ours. But salvation is of the Lord, not of us.
     
    #203 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  4. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Exactly. Thus, it doesn't matter if we partake in faith of our own volition. It's the reckoning of that faith the earns the glory. We believe, He reckons, He gets all the glory.
     
    #204 Calminian, Jul 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.” Romans 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)

    Free will turns the gospel into law and makes God owe you salvation. And that type of faith is reckoned as debt.
     
    #205 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  6. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Only when one conflates faith and reckoning. That is your error. You don't know the difference between the two. I don't see your mind changing now, that takes time, but I at least know where you've erred.
     
    #206 Calminian, Jul 19, 2019
  7. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    No, our RIGHTEOUSNESS is as filthy rags

    You are a misquoting Isaiah 64:6. Not surprising in the least.
     
    #207 InTheLight, Jul 19, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If you think we save ourselves by forcing our flesh to believe in a Christ we can't even discern, our faith is reckoned as filthy rags.
     
    #208 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No it does't
     
    #209 Revmitchell, Jul 19, 2019
  10. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    You've said this about 10 times in this thread and the thread title.

    I guess if you keep on saying this, you think it will become truth. It doesn't work that way.
     
    #210 InTheLight, Jul 19, 2019
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    = "correct" choices too.
     
    #211 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  12. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    #4
     
    #212 InTheLight, Jul 19, 2019
  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If salvation is conditional, the gospel is law, not grace.
     
    #213 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  14. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    #1
     
    #214 InTheLight, Jul 19, 2019
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You tell me what you think #4 means.
     
    #215 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  16. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Repeated this phrase eleven times. Still light years away from truth.
     
    #216 InTheLight, Jul 19, 2019
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    A law is a law. And if you make the gospel conditional, you make it into a law.
     
    #217 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  18. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    It's in my signature. #4 means you presented a strawman argument. You incorrectly stated Calminian's beliefs when you said,

    "If you think we save ourselves by forcing our flesh to believe in a Christ"

    That's a #4, a strawman argument.

    Then you said:

    "our faith is reckoned as filthy rags."

    That's a #1, the word in that verse actually means something else.

    You are taking the word righteousness in Isaiah 64:6 and saying it means "our faith". That's a #1.
     
    #218 InTheLight, Jul 19, 2019
  19. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Twelve times.
     
    #219 InTheLight, Jul 19, 2019
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Free will cannot exist without law and law cannot exist without free will. Free will makes the gospel law as long at it is present in anyone's thinking.
     
    #220 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
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