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How Free Will Turns the Gospel into Law and Grace into Works.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 1689Dave, Jul 16, 2019.

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  1. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Thirteen times.

    You really are a lousy debater. Your error is certainly entertaining.
     
    #221 InTheLight, Jul 19, 2019
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If what I said wasn't true, it would be obvious and you would not need to work so hard trying to prove otherwise.
     
    #222 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  3. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Wow, kind of a reverse #5. Bravo!
     
    #223 InTheLight, Jul 19, 2019
  4. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    If what you're saying was true you wouldn't need to restate it thirteen times like a mantra and you would have someone, anyone supporting your position. But you don't. Instead you have several long time posters taking you to the woodshed.
     
    #224 InTheLight, Jul 19, 2019
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You cannot alter the definition of law. Nor deny that the gospel becomes such when associated with free will.
     
    #225 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You need to write an alternative article showing how the gospel is not law when placed under free will theory.
     
    #226 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  7. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    It's a shame you can't hear what I've been saying. I realize you're juggling a lot of conversations which can get confusing.

    Bottomline, the reason you don't get my point is because you don't understand that it is God's reckoning of faith that saves us. You view faith as a merit, therefore you deny freewill to avoid any merit. It's commendable you're trying to avoid merit, but it comes from confusion about faith and reckoning. I think I'll back off, as you have your hands full.
     
    #227 Calminian, Jul 19, 2019
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I hear you, that's the problem. You still turn the gospel into law and grace into works if faith in any form is of human origin.
     
    #228 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  9. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I need to write an article to rebut an argument that doesn't exist except in your mind?

    Pass.
     
    #229 InTheLight, Jul 19, 2019
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You should prove me wrong with an alternative article showing how the gospel does not become law when made conditional.
     
    #230 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Strawman I do not make it conditional
     
    #231 Revmitchell, Jul 19, 2019
  12. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    But, free will says you must save yourself by meeting certain conditions = the gospel becomes law.
     
    #232 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  13. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    The gospel does not become law via free will.

    Ya happy?

    I can repeat it fifteen times if you like.
     
    #233 InTheLight, Jul 19, 2019
  14. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    #4
     
    #234 InTheLight, Jul 19, 2019
  15. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Just curious though why you won't address what I've said.

    I get disagreements, and give and take, addressing the others points, etc. I've dialoged with many of your view. Doesn't seem you want to engage at all, just continue to make the same charge. Just saying.
     
    #235 Calminian, Jul 19, 2019
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Strawman
     
    #236 Revmitchell, Jul 19, 2019
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Lay it out so we can see.
     
    #237 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Your starting point is off. We need to deal with that and the rest goes away.
     
    #238 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
  19. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Fine. So explain. My starting point is that reckoning and faith are 2 different things and that salvation comes at the point God reckons one's faith as righteousness.

    I'd like you to explain what you believe reckoning or accounting or crediting means. Let's start there.

    Rom. 4:4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:​
     
    #239 Calminian, Jul 19, 2019
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Both faith and reckoning come from God.
     
    #240 1689Dave, Jul 19, 2019
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