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Featured Israel and the Fig Tree

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Roy, Jul 31, 2019.

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  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Either Paul, in writing Romans 11, is stating facts concerning national political Israel in which he served in the interest of the temple rulers as Saul, or Paul was delusional perhaps as the result of the many beatings and deprivations he endured.

    Are you really going to attempt to present Romans 2 as discrediting Romans 11 that clearly declares God most certainly has a plan for national/political Israel? Was this not exactly the question Paul presented in the opening verses of Romans 11?

    There is a single Biblically accepted view of the future. It is that found from chapter 19 and following in Revelation.
     
  2. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    No, He taught the coming of such, not that it was then, or now as proven by the most absolutely clear statements of Revelation 19 and following.

    When giving the example, believers are to pray, “Thy Kingdom come...” not for a current kingdom, but one yet future to come.

    Therefore, most certainly Jesus DID teach of a future literal physical millennial Kingdom.
     
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  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Do you think we are currently in the millennium?
     
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  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Many Dispensationalists go with the two event return of Christ, first the rapture event where we meet Christ in the air, and second where Christ sets foot on the mount. Others of course hold differing views.
     
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I recommend Noone read The Book of Revelation, begining with Chapter 1, as if God Intended The SEVEN VISIONS Stated to be 'read chronologically'.

    If a chronological reading is undertaken, as if God wants us to Understand that we must "observe a sequence of events', that sequence doesn't exist.

    It doesn't exist in Genesis 1 to 3, The Kings, Chronicles, and Samuel's, or in Daniel, or by reading the Four Gospels straight through, and Revelation is not the first Book God Wrote.

    There are Seven VISIONS,
    with Seven ASCENTIONS, or First Advents, and SEVEN SECOND COMING in JUDGMENT.

    Have you seen them?

    All of "The First Advents"
    depict "The First Advent"

    and all of "The Second Comings"
    depict "The Second Coming".

    Each VISION HAS ONE of EACH.

    THAT is The Divine Interpretation structure of The Book of Revelation.

    You need to see it.

    I've got some things to show them somewhere.

    More Than Conquerors: An Interpretation of the Book of Revelation
    Book by William Hendriksen is the go-to CLASSIC.

    Presently, there are several exceptional works presenting the Herminutic that will get you what God wants you to Understand.

    Otherwise, people are just completely making stuff up AND THEY KNOW IT.

    All God's children need an introduction of the 'design' of Revelation, IMO.

    This link is rushing ahead and giving you Kim Riddalbarger's first Section of Revelation.

    You can find his series and it is good because he is a 'scribe', in The Kingdom of The Son.

    This is NOT what you need, first, but where is my Hendriksen collection of Gold? Looking...


    9.1.1a “THE TIME IS NEAR” Pt. 1 in Section 1 of REVELATION Chapter 1:1 – 3:22 / “JESUS CHRIST in the MIDST of the LAMP-STANDS.”
     
    #65 Alan Gross, Aug 5, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
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  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    There is no Millennium. It is a Jewish fable that Christ refuted by teaching a spiritual kingdom only in the Gospels.
     
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  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    AT THAT TIME the KOG was spiritual, and still is. But it WILL be physical, as Scripture says. WHY DO YOU KEEP DENYING THIS WHEN IT'S IN PLAIN SCRIPTURE ?????????????????
     
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  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    SCRIPTURE says otherwise ! !
     
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  9. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus won't come to earth in the rapture. HE will call US to HIMSELF.
     
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  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The Millennium is an old Pharisee doctrine Christ refuted in the gospels. Those who would rather walk by sight than by faith adopted it and tried to "Christianize" it.
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I think that is what I said. :)
     
  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I have often wondered why a Bible Believer would ever have the word, 'Millennium', in their vocabulary.

    Where did that word come from?

    I don't want to know.

    I don't care.

    It is a meaningless, ridiculous, irrational word, for any Bible Believer.
     
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  13. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    At the beginning of The Book of Revelation,
    John is "in The Spirit"....

    John is being Given Revelation, in at the beginning of The Book of Revelation, IN A VISION, also, right?

    There are SEVEN VISIONS.

    EACH VISION SPANS A TIME PERIOD
    from JESUS FIRST COMING
    to JESUS SECOND COMING.

    See if you can see where:

    The First Coming of Christ
    is mentioned in 1:5:
    ...

    "And from Jesus Christ,


    WHO

    is The Faithful Witness,

    and

    The First Begotten

    of the dead,

    and

    The Prince of

    the Kings of the earth.

    Unto Him that Loved us,

    and

    Washed us from our sins

    in His Own Blood"


    THEN WHERE:

    The Second Coming

    of Christ:

    is mentioned

    in this Section 1 of 7

    found in Revelation 1:7:

    "Behold, He comes with clouds;
    and
    every eye will see Him,
    and
    they also who pierced Him:
    and
    all tribes of the earth
    will wail because of Him.
    Even so, Amen."

    THAT IS THE END of THE WORLD,
    in REVELATION 1:7.


    The First Section concerns
    "Christ in the Midst of the Lampstands"
    ( Revelation 1:1 - 3:22).

    ...

    THEN THE SECTION SECTION
    BEGINS by SHOWING:

    Jesus Christ's First Coming,


    in Revelation 5:5,6;

    "And one of the elders

    said to me,
    Weep not:
    behold,
    The Lion of the tribe of Juda,
    The Root of David,
    has Prevailed
    to Open the Book,
    and
    to Loose
    the seven seals thereof."

    "And I beheld, and, see,
    in the middle of the Throne
    and
    of the four beasts,
    and
    in the middle of the elders,
    Stood a Lamb
    as it had been Slain,
    having seven horns
    and seven eyes,
    which are
    the seven Spirits of God
    sent forth into all the Earth."


    THEN SEE IF YOU CAN SEE:

    in Revelation 6:17
    & Revelation 7:16,17;
    later in this same Second Section
    of Seven
    'Groups of Chapters',

    WHERE IT IS DESCRIBING
    THE END of THE WORLD, AGAIN,

    ONLY IN MORE DEPTH of MEANING and......

    R E V E L A T I O N .....

    EVENTS in The Second 'Section'
    or SECOND VISION ASSOCIATED

    with

    Christ's Second Coming

    AND

    THE END of THE WORLD

    are in:

    Revelation 6:17;

    "Because
    The Great Day of His Wrath
    is Come;
    and who
    shall be able to stand?"

    &
    in Revelation 7:16,17;

    "They will hunger no more,
    neither thirst any more;
    neither shall the sun
    light on them,
    nor any heat.

    Because the Lamb
    which is in
    the middle of The Throne
    Will Feed them,
    and
    Will Lead them
    to Living Fountains of Waters:
    and
    God Will Wipe Away
    all tears from their eyes."

    The Second Section
    concerns
    "The Vision of Heaven
    and the Seals"

    (Revelation 4:1 - 7:17).

    ...

    Did you just see "TWO FIRST ADVENTS"
    &
    "TWO ENDS of THE WORLD" RECORDED?

    THERE ARE FIVE MORE in The Book of Revelation,

    and FIVE MORE VISIONS.

    ...

    ALL SEVEN VISIONS SPAN
    "OUR PRESENT INNER-ADVENTAL AGE".

    From Jesus' FIRST ADVENT
    until

    "THE END of THE WORLD",
    AT JESUS SECOND ADVENT.



    Jesus is Coming and Prophecy CAN BE TAUGHT
    and UNDERSTOOD, for CERTAIN,
    BEYOND ANY SHADOW of a DOUBT.

    I know we won't take Matthew 13 and 'construct a sequence of events' straight down that Chapter, so it IS O.K., to not do that in Revelation when God has Given us this Structure, for HIS ONE DIVINE INTERPRETATION.

     
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  14. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Then you don’t believe the OT prophets nor John, for beginning with the prophets, the King rules in the physical kingdom John shows is a thousand years, and on throughout eternity.

    And I thought you held the authority of Scriptures in the most conservative and literal ways.

    Hmmmm.
     
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  15. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Really?

    You actually have proof of Christ refuting the very words He gave such prophets as Ezekiel?

    What of that final temple that no previous temple dimensions fit?

    There is NO temple in the new earth and heaven, so when did Ezekiel get it wrong?

    Seems you are the one who are “Christianizing” rather than taking statement of Scripture as literal as possible.

    Do you not completely bring dispute upon the whole when you, as Thomas Jefferson did with a pen knife, cut out that which you don’t happen to agree.
     
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  16. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    This is just funny!

    Few posts later you start posting the very thing you don’t want read!

    Basically, you must think John was presented a hodgepodge of demented visions because you really have very little facts from which your opinion is based.

    Typical of no millennial folks, even proclaiming what is written is not written!
    2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season....

    ...
    7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. ​

    Just exactly is the common term for one thousand consecutive years?

    And why would the exact number be repeated if it were not factual?



     
    #76 agedman, Aug 5, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  17. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    You didn't read what I said:

    "Few posts later you start posting the very thing you don’t want read!"

    ...

    What does this mean?

    "Just exactly is the common term for one thousand consecutive years?"

    ...

    "And why would the exact number be repeated if it were not factual?"

    You don't really know, do you?

    ...

    "Basically, you must think John was presented a hodgepodge of demented visions because you really have very little facts from which your opinion is based."

    I posted the facts, in Scriptures, with the question, "did you just see...?"

    and that would be a, "no".

    ...

    You know you don't have any idea what Revelation Teaches, by knowing that you are guessing about inventing a 'sequence of events', as if God Had John "Reveal" a hodgepodge of demented visions" that you had to straighten us out on.

    The is a disappointment to you, because you know you are guessing.

    I have nothing to do with what you make up.
     
    #77 Alan Gross, Aug 5, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  18. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    You posted a couple passages and then quickly vented your own unsubstantiated opinion of no particular value. I responded merely so others reading are not left drifting in adopting your opinion.

    But what do I know?

    Not much according to you.

    You already posted I am unknowledgeable, at best guessing at things beyond my level, and, of course, blind.

    But the one unchanging fact is God said it, repeated it TWICE more, and you deny it.

    Now, who do you suppose God is going to look upon as one without knowledge, at best only guessing, and blind?

    I suppose, if you were really interested in knowing the truth, if you really did acknowledge that, of all the Scriptures, this is the only book that states it should be read and studied regularly, and that it does present factual information, then we might engage in a more serious discussion.

    As it is, how can anyone take your thinking concerning Revelation with even casual seriousness?

    If God said it, repeated it, and then repeated it again in the space of a few sentences, do you really not think it worthy of being held factual?

    There is more particulars given in the scope of these passages then given for the virgin birth, yet do you doubt that, too? Is not the virgin birth even less probable to have occurred as revealed?

    Whole large prophetic statements are presented in more specific terms then the given for the resurrection. Do you doubt that, too?

    Or, are you just mostly inconsistent in your opinions of what is and isn’t truthful?

    When you get to the point of actually taking things as truthfully presented in the major areas of this book, then perhaps we can engage.

    Until then, I post that others also are aware and not blinded by you opinions.
     
  19. Roy

    Roy <img src=/0710.gif>
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  20. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Your opinions is all you've got.

    You know you don't know what's factual.

    You can't even convince your own heart.

    There has to be some reason Spiritual Passages, by a Spiritual God, can't be Spiritually decerned.

    Being Led of The Spirit of God is how The Bible says God's children Spiritually Love God and Worship Him, Giving Him Glory in Salvation, and The Honor of Being The One Who Wrote The Bible.

    Because, they are Teachable, in The Spiritual Realities God Has Revealed, in Revelation, and the rest of The Bible.
     
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