1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Washing Our Windows

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Aug 5, 2019.

Top Posters
Page 4 of 5
  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Still claiming faith is works, unable to grasp Romans 4:4-5.
     
    #61 Van, Aug 11, 2019
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No, Christ was the first to be regenerated, all born anew believers followed Him in the regeneration.
    No one entered the kingdom until after Christ, because no one was regenerated until after Christ died.

    Under the Old Covenant, people obtained approval through faith and not works, but they had to wait in Abraham's bosom until after Christ died to be made perfect.

     And yet again a verse is posted referring to the lost under the Old Covenant putting their faith wholly in Christ. But even after they obtained approval through faith, they had to wait in Abraham's bosom to be made perfect.
     
    #62 Van, Aug 11, 2019
  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    i agree , however they were all born again but not perfected in the faith of the messiah redeemer awaiting Him to be made perfect.

    The final phase of that perfection we all await - the resurrection of our bodies along with the OT saints.

    Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
     
    #63 HankD, Aug 11, 2019
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have already addressed this false claim.
    Why did no one enter heaven before Christ died? No answer will be forthcoming.
    Why have those enrolled in Heaven, been made perfect.

    If you cannot see (enter) the kingdom until you are born anew, and no one entered until they were made perfect, how can you deny we are made perfect when we are born anew, and undergo the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration.

    You cannot claim to be made perfect refers to our bodily redemption, because spiritually those enrolled in Heaven, have already been made perfect.
     
    #64 Van, Aug 11, 2019
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist

    You made yourself born again.

    Roman's 4:4-5 talks about God.

    God Justified.

    It was 'the ungodly' that God Justified.

    'Ungodly' are ungodly.

    The ungodly are mentioned in Roman's 4:4-5.

    The ungodly did not have any 'faith'.

    The ungodly had ungodliness.

    That ungodliness, without 'faith', or 'belief' is what God Acted on.

    God Gave the 'un-able-to-believe-God-Who-is-Spirit-because-their-ungodliness-was-dead in trespasses in sins', the ability to believe Him that Justifieth the 'un-able-to-believe-God-Who-is-Spirit-because-their-ungodliness-was-dead in trespasses in sins'.

    Logically the God Who Quickens the dead, Gave Life to the 'un-able-to-believe-God-Who-is-Spirit-because-their-ungodliness-was-dead in trespasses in sins', and belief, prior to Repentance and Faith.

    Any 'Faith' they had was The Gift of God to the ungodly who had none.

    Your 'Life from No-Life' reinvention of Evolution is a demand to God that you have born yourself, again, you are your Savior, and God Can Be Releived that You Opened The Door of your HEART AND "LET" Him Worship your MAGNIFICENT SMAURTNESS.
     
    #65 Alan Gross, Aug 11, 2019
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He had not yet opened the door.
    John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

    Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

    I don't deny it.

    Then perhaps those in heaven ALREADY have their resurrected bodies. I'll find out when I get there.
    In any case that has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER THE OT SAINTS WERE BORN AGAIN HERE ON EARTH.
     
    #66 HankD, Aug 11, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist
    When God Says a word in a Passage you qoute, do you just skip that word, and start making stuff up?

    "ungodly"

    Where you ever "ungodly"?

    "ungodly" does not posses "belief", or "faith", unless it is ungodly belief and ungodly faith.

    The "ungodly" in that verse could not be Credited by God for something they did not have.

    They were ungodly.

    Either you have been ungodly and have been Given Belief and Faith, or you have not Gotten Faith that would ever be Credited for Righteousness.

    That ungodly faith would be ungodly, still, with it's only potential to be Credited by God, in Hell.

    The risk of misinterpreting one word "ungodly", or skipping that word, "ungodly", God Says in that verse you quoted, could be Eternally Fatal.
     
    #67 Alan Gross, Aug 11, 2019
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yet another waste of electrons, posting a change the subject effort. Faith is not works. God credits our faith, not His instilled faith.
     
    #68 Van, Aug 11, 2019
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yet another change the just post. The OT saints were not made perfect, they had to wait until Christ died, Hebrews 11:39-40. When we are set apart in Christ, we are made perfect, made alive, justified, regenerated, saved, made holy and blameless. When Christ comes again, we will be adopted (redeemed in glorified bodies.)
    1Th 4:15
    For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

    [​IMG] 1Th 4:16
    For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

    [​IMG] 1Th 4:17
    Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

    [​IMG] 1Th 4:18
    Therefore comfort one another with these words.
     
    #69 Van, Aug 11, 2019
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Van you keep using the personal pronoun "we" it seems including the OT saints related to our experience.
    While it is true "we" shall all be in the New Jerusalem for eternity their life experience was different from ours.

    Again, they were born again but did not experience all that we (post Pentecost) saints experience.

    As you said they dwelt in "Abraham's Bosom'.

    I believe until after Christ's resurrection and Assumption at which time he opened the door/gates to the city not built with hands.

    Even at that we await the resurrection of our bodies though we have the indwelling of the Spirit.
     
    #70 HankD, Aug 11, 2019
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,356
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Faith:
    Baptist
    These are vicious attacks of a fellow believer in Christ. Doesn't this bother your conscience?
     
    #71 John of Japan, Aug 11, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Rejection is an attack.

    Rejecting rejection nullifies the attack.

    Rejecting the rejection of God and God's Word are both Worship.

    I reject the assumption that those who reject God and His Word, and do so, habitually, are a Brother or Sister, in Christ.

    That is their testimony.

    I am simply not making the assumption, not any accusation.

    I can attempt to care for and admonish whoever.

    My conscience before God is nourished by Bragging on His Son and Speaking His Words.
     
    #72 Alan Gross, Aug 12, 2019
  13. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,356
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I suggest that you need to learn English grammar better if you think you did not personally attack Van. Your attacks were vicious, uncalled for, and against BB rules. At this point I have no respect left for you, and reject further interaction here.
     
    #73 John of Japan, Aug 12, 2019
  14. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Name one.
     
    #74 Alan Gross, Aug 13, 2019
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We refers to those set apart in Christ, thus we are those who have been born anew, and does not include the OT Saints who gained approval through faith but had to wait in Abraham's bosom until Christ died to be made perfect (born anew.)

    No verse says or suggests the OT Saints were born anew before Christ died, none, zip, nada.

    The false assertion you are making is simply Calvinism 101. All they have is to point to something that happened under the Old Covenant and claim it is referring to being born anew. But what it is is redefining a word or phrase to conform to their man-made doctrine.
     
    #75 Van, Aug 13, 2019
  16. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Do you have two different gospels?
     
    #76 Alan Gross, Aug 13, 2019
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I keep showing you but you wont receive it.

    Galatians 4
    28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
    29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
     
    #77 HankD, Aug 13, 2019
  18. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist

     
    #78 Alan Gross, Aug 13, 2019
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    you have a good style but be careful of the stairs.
     
    #79 HankD, Aug 13, 2019
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And I have explained the verse but you will not receive the obvious. Men of God were persecuted both in OT times and NT times, but that does not require or even suggest both were born anew. Isaac was born according to God's promise to Abraham, so he was physically born according to the Spirit.

    The assertion that OT saints were born anew in Christ but were not made perfect is ludicrous.
     
    #80 Van, Aug 15, 2019
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 4 of 5
Loading...