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Layman's Confession of Faith

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jul 19, 2019.

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  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    “Our faith, “your faith, “his faith” are all found in Scriptures.

    What you mistake is the assumption that such faith Is part of humankind.

    It is not.

    NO human attribute is redeemed. Not a single human attribute enters heaven.

    The faith of the redeemed is a belief given that changes the core value system and is expressed as “our, your, His, her...” because the faith/belief I’d endowed and therefore is owned by that person and is used in the Scriptures as owned and operational by that person who is redeemed.

    The human belief system of the unsaved is often considered as the “will” and the “desires” that conform humankind to the world.

    Such is not of God, nor does such get redeemed to enter heaven.

    Hence the Scripture, “NOT by the will of man.”
     
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  2. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    God does not “allow” one to believe.

    I really think you need to prove redeeming faith is not a gift from God.
     
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Does God have to save all sinners?
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Why must he do that, is God? under any obligation to save any of us?
     
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  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another repeat of a false assertion without support in scripture. God credits our faith, not God's instilled faith, as righteousness. Romans 4:4-5, 24
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another false assertion. When God hardens hearts (Romans11) he disallows belief. And in the absence of hardening, He allows belief.
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another bunny trail, a deflection. Does God save all sinners? Nope Does God do as He pleases? Yes.
     
  8. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    If the human faith that was able to attain righteousness of its own accord, then the same writer would not have written that faith had to "come." That it is not already a part of the human estate and that the faith that is righteous, must come from righteousness which is God.

    "Faith COMES by hearing and hearing by the word of God."

    You, present a failed faith a corrupt faith, a faith that shall never enter heaven as capable of attaining God's attention and righteousness.

    Yet, God presents that HE is both the AUTHOR and FINISHER. That salvation is not by the WILL of man.
    And other such statements that you deny as valid by the error of your view.

    It is YOUR "false assertions that are without support in Scriptures."
     
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  9. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Really?

    According to your stated view, God doesn't do as He pleases, but is thwarted by humans capable of preventing others from entering heaven, by others without the Holy Spirit having faith to gain God's attention, by presenting that credits human faith as righteousness.

    When did you suddenly become Calvinist in even suggesting God does as God pleases?
     
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  10. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Only if they all believe. It would be wonderful if all believed. but not all do. Belief is a requirement made by God. It's His will that we believe. Although there has always been those who rebel against God. You take Calvinist they expect God to do it for them When Paul said;
    Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Notice belief comes before being saved.
    Like I said it is a requirement.
    MB
     
  11. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. Faith comes by hearing and faith is not a work or else that would make Laul a liar.
    Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
    Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
    Now how is it possible that a man could attain righteousness through his own faith.

    You Calvinist ought to be ashamed. You deny the truth and make up your own. You have grown callous and hard herted. You prevent men from the truth that leads to Salvation. You don't even believe it your selves.

    Nor is election by your will. You claim to be elect but I don't believe you are. Why not prove you personally are in fact elect?There is nothing in scripture by which you can measure it yet you claim you are elect.

    The only error is Calvinism. You seem to boast about it yet none of you don't show any real Christ likeness at all.
    What are you so bitter about? Is the Holy Spirit making you mad because He allows us to dispute all the Calvinist junk you put out? Not once was there ever a bitterness in Christ.
    Like I've said before Just another false doctrine that has no standing in the Lord.
    MB
     
  12. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    How do you know what pleases God?
     
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly true. Per the KJV.There are 24 verses that speak of "your faith" 4 that speak of our faith and none of His faith. The faith of Christ is our faith we get it through hearing the gospel..There is only one kind of faith for us and that is our own given to us at birth. Prove me different.
    MB
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another strawman, another absurdity. In order for a person to be saved, God must allow the person to believe, otherwise God hardens their hearts so they cannot believe.
    Yet another straight up denial of Romans 4:4-5, 24.

    First, faith is works, then it is impossible to believe, then Lord knows your next fiction. Meanwhile, scripture refers to "his faith" and "your faith" time and time again. God says what He means.
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another straight up falsehood. No quote will be forthcoming.
    God's plan is to choose individuals through faith in the truth. You deny this.
    I am a one point Calvinist (OSAS) but the rest of the tulip is as bogus as a three dollar bill.
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    This thread needs to be put back on track. All the posts by one Calvinist after another deny one scripture after another. Lets return to what scripture actually says:
    Of God and the Holy Trinity – One God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19

    Of God's Decree- God before creation chose to bring about creation for the purpose of creating mankind for His glory, Isaiah 43:7

    Of Creation –In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, Genesis 1:1

    Of Divine Providence – God made everything and sustains everything and brings about the conditions useful for His purpose of creation, including altering the course of human events by intervention, Colossians 1:17; Deuteronomy 30:19.

    Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the punishment thereof – Adam volitionally sinned, knowing God said not to eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil. This resulted in Adam being separated from God, i.e. kicked out of the garden, and his corruption, i.e. his eyes were opened. Genesis 3:7; 17-24

    Of God's Covenant – God’s eternal covenant was to provide eternal life for those of His choosing, based on crediting their faith as righteousness, keeping His covenant of love. James 2:5

    Of Christ the Mediator – Jesus is our mediator, our high priest who sacrificed Himself, becoming the propitiation for the whole world, interceding for those given to Him, taking whatever was against us out of the way. Hebrews 9:11-15

    Of Free Will – We make plans but God directs our steps, thus God allows us autonomous thoughts and actions, but only so far as He allows. He can and does intervene and restrict our options, such as hardening hearts to cause some to continue to reject Christ for a time. Proverbs 16:9, Romans 11:7

    Of Effectual Calling – I deny the doctrine of Irresistible Grace, men of flesh, unless hardened, can hear and understand and respond to the milk of the gospel, 1 Corinthians 2:14 – 3:3.

    Of Justification – refers to being made “right” with God, thus our “sin burden” is removed. This occurs when we are spiritually placed in Christ, and undergo the circumcision of Christ, Romans 5:18, Colossians 2:11.

    Of Adoption – Our adoption refers to being made physical children of God when we bodily resurrected at Christ’s second coming, Romans 8:23.

    Of Sanctification – Salvation is presented in scripture as having three phrases, Positional Sanctification referring to when we are set apart in Christ 2 Thessalonians 2:13; Progressive Sanctification, referring to our life after being put in Christ where we strive to become more Christ like, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8, and Ultimate Sanctification, our Adoption at His second coming, 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

    Of Saving Faith - Faith God credits as righteousness, being from the heart, fully committed and devoted to Christ, having more to do with our love of Christ than believing the right doctrines, Romans 4:4-5; 24.

    Of Repentance unto Life and Salvation – God grants repentance via His revelatory grace, i.e. providing us with an understanding of God’s perfection and our sins and their consequences. When we repent we give glory to God. 2 Timothy 2:24-26; Revelation 16:9.

    Of Good Works – Before salvation, all our “good works” are as filthy rags to God, but upon being born anew, created for good works, we can earn eternal rewards if we build upon the foundation of Christ according to His will, Isaiah 64:6; Ephesians 2:10.

    Of the Perseverance of the Saints – Once born anew, we cannot undo. 1 Peter 1:3-5.

    Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation – If we have been born anew, our life changes, and we exhibit the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Thus, when we meet for communion, we are to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith, and if our heart does not convict us, we are to take the bread and the wine in remembrance of our Savior, 2 Corinthians 13:5-6.

    Of the Law of God – Under the Old Covenant, under the Law of Moses, the Law acted as a tutor, leading us to a knowledge of our sins and our need of a Savior, Galatians 3:24. Once born again, under the Law of Christ (also Called the Law of Liberty) we are to strive to follow Christ, and keep His commandments, 1 Corinthians 9:21. Primarily, we are to love God with all our heart, mind and soul, and love our neighbors as ourselves, Matthew 22:36-40.

    Of the Gospel and the Extent of Grace thereof – The only unpardonable sin is to reject Christ. Other than that, God will forgive your sins and remember them no more forever. Ephesians 1:7

    Of Christian Liberty and Liberty of Conscience – As ambassadors of Christ we are to be His witness to the world, thus being careful to not be a stumbling block to others. Romans 14:20-23

    Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day – The Law of Moses has gone away, and with it the requirement to keep the Sabbath, but we are to set apart a time for worship and reflection, and study and meditation, and Sundays are used by many Christians. 2 Corinthians 3:2-11

    Of Lawful Oaths and Vows – We are not to swear by God or anything else. Matthew 5:34

    Of the Civil Magistrate – God has established governance, and so we are to submit provided that in doing so would not result in violating a clear command of God. In the military the concept is known as following “lawful” orders. No massacring women and children because the officer said so. Romans 13:1-2

    Of Marriage - Marriage is the union of a man and a woman, both committed to Christ.

    Of the Church – Church refers to either the local temporal assembly of professing believers, made up of both wheat and tares, or to the general assembly, the bride and body of Christ, made up of all who have been made perfect by being born anew.

    Of the Communion of Saints – When we, believers, gather together we are to remember our indebtedness to Christ who gave his body, broken for us, and his blood, shed for us, and to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith.

    Of Baptism – Christ using the agency of the Holy Spirit, baptizes us to the body of Christ spiritually, and then seals us in Christ with the Holy Spirit. Christ commanded we illustrate this spiritual baptism, and make a public declaration of our faith in Christ, thus we are to be water baptized and water baptize all who profess faith in Christ .

    Of the State of Man after Death, and of the Resurrection of the Dead – When we physically die, our spirit/soul departs and goes either to heaven to be present with the Lord, or to Hades to suffer torment and await the resurrection of the dead. At the great white throne judgment, all the spirits in Hades will be reunited with physical bodies and be gathered for judgment. Their names, not being found in the Lamb’s book of life, they are put into the Lake of Fire where they suffer and die the second death.

    Of the Last Judgment – Those of us whose spirits go to be with the Lord, are also united with our glorified physical bodies at Christ’s second coming, and we are judged, with Christ awarding rewards for faithful service if we have built upon the foundation of Christ with material of eternal value, i.e. helped save lives.
     
  17. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    You are confusing the human capacity of hoping (human belief) and that which is based upon the assurance (God belief/faith).

    The Scriptures state HOW such God belief/faith comes: "faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ." IF the faith were innate in the humankind, then such would not need to be brought.

    Further, "faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen," human faith has no such ability of assurance, it can at best only hope.

    Human belief (confidence) is not righteous, and therefore cannot attain righteousness, it is as all that pertains to humanness already condemned according to John 3.

    Therefore, it would be good for your edification to not go about seeking to establish your own righteousness, but rely upon that which Christ authored and founded, that in which according to John is God empowered, and that which is gifted ONLY to the elect. For all others have already been condemned.

    That when you read of believer's faith, you understand that such is the gift from God, it is not that which is innate in humankind, and yet is expressed as personally owned, for it is after all that which was gifted to that person.
     
  18. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    So, you really don't believe that others can prevent folks from entering the kingdom of heaven?

    You really don't believe that innate human "faith" is capable of such righteous expression that God's attention is eventually acquired and credits the human faith as righteous?

    You have thumped on those two points, and yet when I pointed out that you also stated, "Nope Does God do as He pleases? Yes." which is a clearly Calvinistic view, you then deny you said it!

    So, I have BOTH quoted you, and shown how your thinking is lacking veracity.
     
  19. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Faith is the hope for things not seen not the conviction of things not seen. Conviction is being found guilty of the things we have done and seen.

    Not so there is only one kind of faith and that is for the things we hope for. You have nothing to prove there are two kinds of faith.No where in scripture is there anything that speaks of two kinds of faith. Saving faith is placing your hope in Christ for Salvation. I have no righteousness but the righteousness of Christ that I wear to hide my unrighteousness
    Rom 10:3 For they, being ignorant of God's righteousness and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.
    Rom_10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    No one is condemned until the judgement at the great white throne.

    The ability to have faith is with men at birth. We are created with it. You call it a gift. Maybe so it came from God at creation. There is no faith other than what we come to believe through hearing.

    To believe that one day God just zapped you with faith is not scriptural.. We all have the ability to believe and have faith. We all can be saved by the Savior. We all have the possibility of living in heaven with our Savior.

    Only those who reject the Lord have no possibility as long as they reject Him.
    Election or being chosen by God is predestined. However it depends on you coming to believe in Christ. If you do not believe then you never realize your destiny.

    MB
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again a straight up falsehood. When God chooses to put a person in the kingdom, no one and no power can prevent it.

    And note the you, you, you post changing the subject away from scriptural understanding.

    Matthew 23:13 says people prevented the lost from entering the kingdom, which is to say prevent them from putting their faith fully in Christ. What must we do to be saved? Put our faith in Christ Jesus! Does putting our faith in Christ Jesus save us? Nope, God does that if He credits our faith, as worthless as it may be, as righteousness. Romans 4:4-5; 24 We are saved by grace through faith. Ephesians 2:8 Our credited faith provides our access to the grace in which we stand. Romans 5:1-2
     
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