Conditional Salvation

Does that mean humans are perfect, holy, righteous and sinless?

 

Here's a good source, and very comprehensive:

Total Depravity Verse List

I don't see a need to repeat what is contained in other threads, or take over this one with a discussion of "Total Depravity".
Read the above link, and I'm sure you will find what you're looking for.

One thing I disapprove of is his choosing of the ESV as his Scriptural source...
I wouldn't use it myself, trusting only the AV in the English ( and a very few others in other languages ) for its accuracy.
You are, of course, free to choose whatever you like.

Also, at the end of his list he suggests some recommended reading.
I say, "skip them", and simply stick to the Scriptures.

It can be done, and has been done.

Of course it isn't...neither is "rapture", "trinity", "soul-winning" and many other commonly described terms.

I'm not interested in trying it...again.

It's not based on man-made philosophy.

It's a conclusion ( read, "set of facts" ) that is developed by God's word, and was originally formulated in response to a document entitled "the Five Articles of the Remonstrants" that was submitted to the churches of Holland in 1610.
I agree with "Total Depravity", even though I don't really choose to call it that.

I tend to refer to it as, "Total Rebellion".
The Roman Catholic Church, among others, labels it "Anathema", if I'm recalling the Canons of Trent correctly.


Again, may God bless you in your studies, sir.

 

This is a debate forum. This means that you are using the doctrines of man and trying to support your doctrine with scripture. It seems that you are exactly like the people whom you vilify. I'm just trying to understand why you think you alone have scripture on your side, but those debating somehow don't have scripture on their side.

 

says you but what do you know. I don't see you as an authority on scripture more like a clanging symbol.
MB

 

I'm sorry. Are we supposed to find all theological phrases in the Bible? Because we do not find the word "Trinity" in the Bible does that mean the being known as God is not three distict person's, yet equally one God? Does that mean that since we don't find the phrase "The supremacy of Christ" that Christ is not Supreme over all creation?

 

If I quote the entire Bible will that satisfy you? If I exegete every verse, will that satisfy you? You seem like a very defensive person when you are confronted. Do you often attempt a higher ground by declaring that you are being picked on, even though the other person is pointing out your contradictions? It seems that you have developed a surefire means of never being wrong or having to admit you are wrong. Simply keep stating that you alone know God and all others fail to know God like you do.
Do you ever see your pride that oozes from your words?
Feel free to place me on ignore if you cannot face the person within yourself.

 

I went through your list not one of them says so you see total depravity.

I can find the opposite of Total Depravity in a heartbeat.

Deuteronomy 30

11“For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12“It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13“Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14“But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

God says YOU CAN DO IT.

You have a list of scripture where people WON'T and DON'T.

But your claim is none CAN, That is not God's claim.


Everyone here has tripped and fell. If I use your logic my claim is none CAN WALK EVER.

I can find verse that says everyone sins. Thats easy. I can find a verse that say bad people do bad things.

You can add them all up and add a million more verses that says people sin and do bad.

none OF IT teaches Total Depravity. This should be a piece of cake. this is foundation teaching of your GOSPEL show where it teaches Total Depravity.

The very IDEA that you have been stripped of the capacity to ever do right. Where did you get that idea FROM? where is the verse?

 

You didn't answer my question.

Does that mean humans are perfect, holy, righteous and sinless?

 

Trinity is a perfect example I mentioned this before. In scripture I can find God the Father, God the Son Jesus Christ, God the Holy Spirit. There is only one God. I can find the pieces of scripture Trinity is all there in meaning.

Now I would invite you to find Total depravity that in meaning we have no capacity to do what is right in God's eyes.

You can find scripture that say people do bad things, everyone sins, but you never get around to anything to teach the meaning of Total Depravity

Whereas I have found scripture claiming just the opposite of total depravity.

Deuteronomy 30

11“For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12“It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13“Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14“But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

At least tell us this verse is a lie.

You can find scripture that says everyone is naughty, everyone is evil, everyone is going to hell. lets for a minute just scribble those into the bible. That still does not prove, teach nor hint at TOTAL DEPRAVITY.

What trinity MEANS can be found in scripture. What total depravity means IS NO WHERE THERE. You can't build it.

You can have a thousand verses that says PEOPLE ARE BAD. That doesn't equal to TOTAL DEPRAVITY. Your bringing in a TRADITION that has never been hinted at by scripture.

God is not an idiot. You have got to be the dumbest author ever if you could not convey in thousands of verses what me and you can directly say in ONE LINE.

It wasn't hard for me to find ONE LINE its right there.


LOOK let me give it to you:

As a consequence of the Fall of Man, every person born into the world is enslaved to the service of sin as a result of their fallen nature and, apart from the efficacious or prevenient grace of God, is utterly unable to choose to follow God, refrain from evil, or accept the gift of salvation as it is offered.

Does that sound right? I bet it sounds perfect. This however can't be found in scripture.

You can find People do bad things, Jews have misbehaved, everyone sins. After reading all the negative verses.

AHA! everyone sins, doesn't mean everyone can't do right.

We can scribble in fake verse like. NO one has ever done anything right. That still doesn't mean everyone can't do right.

Your hypothesis and Theory that no one can choose to follow God is not built on scripture stating so but your own personal judgement and conclusion based on the evil deeds that have been recorded.

In genesis when the fall happens God gives a entire list of penalties, you are going to have me believe he left out the most damning penalty of all and never mention total depravity?

 

I bet I can take any defense of Total Depravity, scratch out the words Total Depravity and write in Total Stupidity, and get you to believe Total Stupidity is true. Because the teaching is not expressed in scripture it is a sum of just emphasizing failure and shoving in a bad assumption to summarize it all.

 

It seems you misunderstand the meaning of total depravity.

 

All of scripture applies to us all.
MB

 

I admit that man is a sinful creature. What I disagree with in total depravity is that we inherited Adam's sin. We did not inherit Adam's sin. I believe man is only responsible for his own sin. Paul say's he would not have known sin if it weren't for the Law..

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
MB

 

Can God be equal with Him self? Christ is higher than supreme. Christ is all powerful .
MB

 

I agree.Total depravity in the sense of inability is not supported by scripture. Your right it is stupidity.
MB

 

You are so funny you made me laugh so hard I nearly fell out of my chair.. You seem so irritated. Hehehehe
MB

 

Please answer the question.

Are we supposed to find all theological phrases in the Bible?