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The Idea Of Free Will

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reformed1689, Oct 14, 2019.

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  1. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I understand the narrative just fine, Marty.
    Why can't you accept the declarative?
    Regrettably, there shouldn't be any verses that are argued over.:(
    The verses cited should do the job, in my estimation.

    I don't see the problem...
    God's children believe God's words.
    All of them, not just some of them.

    For example, if I quote this:
    " For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ( John 3:16 ).

    It has just as much "weight" as this:
    " The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." ( Psalms 5:5 ).

    John 10:27 is the rule...Christ's sheep "hear" His voice.
    They know Him, and they follow Him...not men;

    Not John Calvin, and not John Wesley.
    Not John R. Rice, and not John MacArthur.

    His voice is every word ( Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4 ) that He delivers...whether through inspiration and the spoken word, as He gave Paul "utterance" ( Acts of the Apostles 2:4, Ephesians 6:19 ), or in the written word, as He gave men inspiration through the Holy Ghost.

    Acts of the Apostles 13:48 is just as true as John 3:16.
    John 3:36 is just as true as John 10:26.
    Psalms 5:5 and Psalms 11:5 are just as true as John 3:16.
    Romans 9:14-18 is equally as true as 1 Timothy 2:3-4.

    God loves and God hates.
    God saves and God damns to Hell.

    The saved love Him and the rest of the world hates Him.

    To me, it's not the words that are the problem...it's the willingness by many who profess Christ to actually receive ( welcome ) them as meaning what they say:
    Literally, grammatically, and in their proper contexts with all the others.
     
    #81 Dave G, Oct 16, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
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  2. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    God's Spirit does the work, along with the word.

    Apart from the word, no one "hears".
    Apart from the Spirit's working, no one "hears".

    One must have ears to hear, and eyes to see ( Matthew 11:15 ).
    One cannot be a "natural man" ( 1 Corinthians 2:14 )...one who thinks that the things of the Spirit are foolishness to them.
    One cannot be one of the perishing, who, when they hear the preaching of the cross, think that it is foolishness...they must be one of the ones that are saved, that, to them, that preaching is the power of God ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 ).

    His words must be spiritually discerned by someone who can understand them, spiritually ( John 8:47 ).;)
     
    #82 Dave G, Oct 16, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  3. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    The "us-ward" is the "beloved" from verse 8, roby.
    The ones He is not willing that any should perish, are the same ones He is not willing should perish in John 6:39.

    Christ's sheep.
     
    #83 Dave G, Oct 16, 2019
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  4. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
    Because how God saves someone is not a mystery...it's revealed in His word ( Psalms 65:4, Romans 8:29-30, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, etc ).
     
    #84 Dave G, Oct 16, 2019
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  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Amen
     
    #85 Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 16, 2019
  6. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Paul would disagree with you. The scripture you offer does not support your theories. I already understand Calvinism to be a false doctrine because it is not supported by scripture. Total depravity is not of scripture. it's a doctrine of man.
    MB
     
    #86 MB, Oct 16, 2019
  7. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Even in the context you showed it still says "all men". You're just grabbing at straws. Everyone there would also agree that He meant" all men" This destroys your doctrine. You lost the argument.
    MB
     
    #87 MB, Oct 16, 2019
  8. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    David, prove your point.
     
    #88 loDebar, Oct 16, 2019
  9. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Not grabbing at straws. The context shows he was explaining all types of men (both Jew and Gentile) would be part of the Kingdom not just Jews. THAT is the context and that is what all men means in that verse.
     
    #89 Reformed1689, Oct 16, 2019
  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    The proof is that only His sheep hear his voice.
     
    #90 Reformed1689, Oct 16, 2019
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You are free to oppose yourself..If you want to search for truth it is found in scripture, not emotional objections. When you turn from scripture there is no truth to be found.
     
    #91 Iconoclast, Oct 16, 2019
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  12. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    No so David you just keep trying to change what the Bible says by adding your own nonsense.
    MB
     
    #92 MB, Oct 17, 2019
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Emotional objections hehehehehehe. Your funny!
    MB
     
    #93 MB, Oct 17, 2019
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  14. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't change anything. You take one verse out of context and make it say something it doesn't actually say. Not to mention your viewpoint makes you disagree with other Scripture.

    Let me ask you this. What about people who have never heard the Gospel. Specifically, let's talk about people in unreached jungles. They still exist. What was their choice to reject the Gospel? How did they specifically reject that Jesus died for their sins if they don't even know that happened?

    You cannot reconcile that with your theology. Romans 1 has been tossed around here but that only says they know about God based on creation. It says nothing about knowing the Gospel. You cannot know the Gospel without actually receiving the Gospel.
     
    #94 Reformed1689, Oct 17, 2019
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  15. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure of that. I've read that the Pharisee's also heard Christ and argued with Him. They were not sheep they were adversaries.
    MB
     
    #95 MB, Oct 17, 2019
  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, this doesn't even deserve a response it is such a ignorant comment.
     
    #96 Reformed1689, Oct 17, 2019
  17. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Are they unable to hear?
     
    #97 loDebar, Oct 17, 2019
  18. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Poor David what a good Calvinist you are trying so hard to convince me of false doctrine. Why? I wonder. Do you think my faith to be weak enough to become what ever you would like to mold me into. hehehehehehe You are funny David I will never be a Calvinist.
    MB
     
    #98 MB, Oct 17, 2019
  19. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    So rather than actually answer the argument, because you can't, you attack me instead? That says all we need to know folks. You lost.
     
    #99 Reformed1689, Oct 17, 2019
  20. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Now you are just trying so hard to make me mad Hehehehehehehehehe! You really are funny David. You fail in debate everytime you try.You do seem somewhat similar to the Pharisee's your self. Even you can hear God. hehehehehehehehe!
    MB
     
    #100 MB, Oct 17, 2019
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