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Sticks & Stones - Do You Stone The Sabbath Breaker? (Num 15:32-36)

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Alofa Atu, Oct 24, 2019.

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  1. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Sticks & Stones - Do You Stone The Sabbath Breaker? (Num 15:32-36), a study of the mocking question.



    POWERPOINT

    Num 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
    Num 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
    Num 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
    Num 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
    Num 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
     
  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yes, those who break the Sabbath must be brought to the city limits by the congregation and put to death for their wickedness.
     
  3. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    And so surely they shall be when the "city", the "camp of the saints", comes down.
     
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    NO verse 36 is in the PRESENT TENSE.

    NOW! If you commit to Sabbath keeping and violate it you MUST die THE DEATH.

    You cannot claim to keep the Sabbath and refuse the penalty of VIOLATING IT!
     
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  5. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    If people want to know how to really keep the Sabbath, go look at the way the Hasidic Jews keep it - they are not messing around. They keep the Sabbath and all the other 600 or so requirements that are needed as listed in the OT Scriptures to make them acceptable to God. They do not pick and choose what they will do, they do it all.
     
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  6. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Active Member

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    When will SDA's finally learn that Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians/The Church under the New Covenant.

    *Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

    When SDA's set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant for Israel would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

    If Sabbath day observances are to properly be observed, then so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19). I never hear SDA's talk about that. They are too busy condemning those who worship God on Sunday.

    These observances were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1). If keeping the Sabbath day is still in affect, then why don't SDA's seek to obey ALL that the Lord has commanded? How can they keep a certain law if they only keep part of it? If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

    Is the SDA church going to enforce that? What about Jewish synagogue or the Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no SDA can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.

    In Deuteronomy 5, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.” (Deuteronomy 5:15)
     
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  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You are wasting your time. SDA's only post here to blast anyone who does not follow their ungodly and unbiblical doctrines.
     
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  8. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Active Member

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    Yes, arguing with a SDA is like arguing with a shady lawyer who is out to win their case at all costs, no matter how much scripture twisting, trickery, deceit, rhetoric and SDA propaganda that it takes! Whenever I do post in these SDA threads, it's generally to help others. I don't expect SDA's to listen.
     
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  9. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    I remember the one SDA adherent who posted here claimed he was keeping kosher by eating only chicken, turkey, and beef. Unfortunately for him, those type of products bought at the Piggly Wiggly are not kosher - they all contain blood in the meat which is a big no, no according to the OT dietary laws. So that would be another violation of God's law for them. In their zeal for Sabbath keeping, they conveniently ignore everything else.
     
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  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    That's why I call 'em "Seven-Day-Adlibbers". They replace the ACTUAL meanings of many Scriptures with what Ellen Gould White ad-libbed as she wrote her garbage.

    The early Christians, mostly Jews, lived among the other non-Christian Jews, & that day, they still strictly enforced the Sabbath laws, often killing violators who were also Jews. Most of the Christian Jews quit attending services on Saturday, meeting instead on Sundays, & we see no criticism from Jesus for their doing that. And not even the "orthodox" Jews required gentiles to observe the Sabbath nor any of their special feast days.

    And, of course, we see God told the apostles to not require any gentile Christians to observe Jewish customs, either. But in the SDA, we have a congregation of almost all gentiles doing JUST THAT !
     
  11. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Of course it is present tense, for it still applies, but the conditions must be met to be fulfilled, for how can one be brought "within" since the "camp" is not yet here, and how can one be brought "without" since the "camp" is not yet here. This is not our present home, for we are only pilgrims, and thus await for our eternal city, the "camp of the saints" to come down. Then will all justice be met. Sabbath breakers (presumptuous) will indeed die, they will die the second death. Type points to antitype, but the spiritual does follow the natural.
     
  12. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    You still haven't even once addressed the scriptures we present, when will you do this?

    If this (Col. 2:16) is really the "strongest verse refuting" I would hope you consider what I am about to share on it, since the Bible warns us taking a single verse from its context. Please consider prayerfully (my short, brief study, as I have a much longer (approximately 33 pages) version as needful):

    Colossians 2 KJB (citing Ezekiel 45:17 KJB), parallels Ephesians 2 KJB, and Hebrews 9-10 KJB. The language is the same. The "ordinances" in Colossians 2 deals with "shadows", such as the daily "meat and drink" offerings of a worldly sanctuary and carnal ordinances, the seasonal "feast days", the monthly "new moons", and the year based "sabbaths", in the singular, every 7 and 50th years, as Paul is citing Psalms 98:1-3; and Ezekiel 45:17 KJB with other texts.

    The Sabbath of the LORD thy God is always called "my [as in God's] sabbaths", and the others in Leviticus 23:4 onward are called "your [the peoples] sabbaths" [Leviticus 26:35 KJB] which are "beside [given in addition to] the sabbaths of the LORD" [Leviticus 23:38 KJB]. The Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath of the 4th Commandment, are "light" [Proverbs 6:23, Isaiah 8:20, 51:4 KJB], never a "shadow", are "spiritual" [Romans 7:14 KJB], never "carnal" [Hebrews 9:10 KJB].

    Colossians 2:14 - "ordinances"
    Ephesians 2:15 - "law of commandments contained in ordinances"
    Hebrews 9:1 - "ordinances of divine service"
    Hebrews 9:10 - "carnal ordinances"

    Colossians 2:16 - "in meat, or in drink" [offerings]
    Hebrews 9:10 - "meats and drinks" [offerings]

    Colossians 2:12 - "also ye are risen with him"
    Ephesians 2:6 - "raised us up together"

    Colossians 2:16 - "a shadow of things to come"
    Ephesians 2:7 - "in the ages to come"
    Hebrews 9:11 - "of good things to come"
    Hebrews 10:1 - "the law having a shadow of good things to come", "those sacrifices", "offered year by year"

    [ps. none of the Ten Commandments deal with carnal sacrifices]

    it speaks of plural, "sabbath days" (or 'of sabbaths'). The context, is also not concerned with all 'sabbaths' but is limited in scope, to that which is "shadow" (not light, not body or substance), that which is "of things to come" (type pointing to the future events) and of "ordinances", as follows.

    [1] The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, of Creation (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11), was given to mankind (Adam) before the sin of mankind (Mark 2:27), before the need of shadow and type, which were given after the sin of mankind, under the Levitical priesthood.

    [2] The Sabbath of the LORD the God, is a memorial (pointing backwards, thu the words "Remember" (Exodus 20:8)), to a perfect world without sin, perfect relationship, perfect rest), and is not pointing to the future.

    [3] The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, is singular and specific. "The seventh day" "the sabbath" "of the LORD thy God".

    Exodus 20:8 KJB - Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    Exodus 20:9 KJB - Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    Exodus 20:10 KJB - But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    Exodus 20:11 KJB - For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    Exodus 20:8 HOT - זכור את־יום השׁבת לקדשׁו׃
    Exodus 20:9 HOT - שׁשׁת ימים תעבד ועשׂית כל־מלאכתך׃
    Exodus 20:10 HOT - ויום השׁביעי שׁבת ליהוה אלהיך לא־תעשׂה כל־מלאכה אתה ובנך־ובתך עבדך ואמתך ובהמתך וגרך אשׁר בשׁעריך׃
    Exodus 20:11 HOT - כי שׁשׁת־ימים עשׂה יהוה את־השׁמים ואת־הארץ את־הים ואת־כל־אשׁר־בם וינח ביום השׁביעי על־כן ברך יהוה את־יום השׁבת ויקדשׁהו׃

    Exodus 20:8 HOT Translit. - zäkhôr et-yôm haSHaBät l'qaD'shô
    Exodus 20:9 HOT Translit. - shëshet yämiym Taávod w'äsiytä Käl-m'lakh'Tekhä
    Exodus20:10 HOT Translit. -w'yôm haSH'viyiy shaBät layhwäh éloheykhä lo-taáseh khäl-m'läkhäh aTäh ûvin'khä-ûviTekhä av'D'khä waámät'khä ûv'hem'Tekhä w'gër'khä ásher Bish'äreykhä
    Exodus 20:11 HOT Translit. - Kiy shëshet-yämiym äsäh y'hwäh et-haSHämayim w'et-hääretz et-haYäm w'et-Käl-ásher-Bäm waYänach BaYôm haSH'viyiy al-Kën Bërakh' y'hwäh et-yôm haSHaBät way'qaD'shëhû š

    [4] The Sabbath of the LORD is separate from the yearly festal sabbaths, as denoted in Leviticus 23 (see Leviticus 23:3; then see Leviticus 23:4,38 "beside the sabbaths of the LORD")

    [5] The Sabbath of the LORD thy God, is called "the sabbath of the LORD" (Exodus 20:8-11, etc), and "My sabbaths" (Isaiah 56:4; Ezekiel 20:20), as opposed to theirs, called "your sabbaths" (Leviticus 26:34,35), and "her sabbaths" (Leviticus 26:34,43; 2 Chronicles 26:31; Lamentations 1:7; Hosea 2:11), etc.

    [6] Colossians 2, in its entire context says nothing about "the seventh day", but speaks of merely the shadow sabbaths (plural, not singular), and says nothing of "commandment" (as Luke 23:54,56 does), but speaks of worldly "ordinances" (Colossians 2:14,20).

    [7] Colossians 2, speaks of "sins" (Colossian 2:13), which is "transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4), of which the 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) is central, whereas the yearly (and of years) sabbaths are not given in the Ten Commandments at all

    More can be said, but 7 was a good number to round it off at this point, more in detail in a bit.

    Paul was citing Ezekiel 45:17:

    Eze 45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

    Read Ezekiel 45 in all of its context,

    Eze_45:14 Concerning the ordinance of oil, the bath of oil, ye shall offer the tenth part of a bath out of the cor, which is an homer of ten baths; for ten baths are an homer:

    etc.

    Paul's use of Ezekiel 45:17 is in both places contextual to "ordinances", and "shadow", and elsewhere "carnal" and "worldly" (Ephesians 2 and Hebrews 9-10).

    Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

    Therefore, it is not all "sabbaths". It is limited to Paul's citation, and use.
     
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  13. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Others, non-Seventh-day Adventist even tell you as much:

    Interestingly enough Albert Barnes, a noted Bible Commentator, states on Colossians 2:16, on the word “sabbatwn”:

    “... Or of the Sabbath days - Greek, “of the Sabbaths.” The word Sabbath in the Old Testament is applied not only to the seventh day, but to all the days of holy rest that were observed by the Hebrews, and particularly to the beginning and close of their great festivals. There is, doubtless, reference to those days in this place, since the word is used in the plural number, and the apostle does not refer particularly to the Sabbath properly so called. There is no evidence from this passage that he would teach that there was no obligation to observe any holy time, for there is not the slightest reason to believe that he meant to teach that one of the ten commandments had ceased to be binding on mankind. If he had used the word in the singular number - “the Sabbath,” it would then, of course, have been clear that he meant to teach that that commandment had ceased to be binding, and that a Sabbath was no longer to be observed. But the use of the term in the plural number, and the connection, show that he had his eye on the great number of days which were observed by the Hebrews as festivals, as a part of their ceremonial and typical law, and not to the moral law, or the Ten Commandments. No part of the moral law - no one of the ten commandments could be spoken of as “a shadow of good things to come.” These commandments are, from the nature of moral law, of perpetual and universal obligation. ...” - Albert Barnes, Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.

    Furthermore, another noted Commentator, Adam Clarke, states on the same passage:

    “... There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity. I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. ...” - Adam Clarke, Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.

    Even the Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Commentary state:

    “... the sabbath — Omit “THE,” which is not in the Greek (compare Note, see on Gal_4:10). “SABBATHS” (not “the sabbaths”) of the day of atonement and feast of tabernacles have come to an end with the Jewish services to which they belonged (Lev_23:32, Lev_23:37-39). The weekly sabbath rests on a more permanent foundation, having been instituted in Paradise to commemorate the completion of creation in six days. Lev_23:38 expressly distinguished “the sabbath of the Lord” from the other sabbaths. A positive precept is right because it is commanded, and ceases to be obligatory when abrogated; a moral precept is commanded eternally, because it is eternally right. If we could keep a perpetual sabbath, as we shall hereafter, the positive precept of the sabbath, one in each week, would not be needed. Heb_4:9, “rests,” Greek, “keeping of sabbath” (Isa_66:23). But we cannot, since even Adam, in innocence, needed one amidst his earthly employments; therefore the sabbath is still needed and is therefore still linked with the other nine commandments, as obligatory in the spirit, though the letter of the law has been superseded by that higher spirit of love which is the essence of law and Gospel alike (Rom_13:8-10). ...” - Jamieson, Fausset and Brown, Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.
     
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  14. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    When will you address the scriptures we present?

    Strawman. Seventh-day Adventists teach the New Covenant:

    Isaiah 56:1 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

    Who is this talking about? It is talking about Jesus [see also Isaiah 46:13, 51:5,6,8 KJB, “my righteousness shall not be abolished”, Psalms 119:172, “all thy commandments are righteousness”, see also Isaiah 48:18 KJB]:

    Matthew 1:21 KJB - And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    Luke 2:30 KJB - For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

    Acts 4:10 KJB - Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

    Acts 4:12 KJB - Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    Etc.

    Jump briefly to the next verse in Isaiah 56, verse 8 KJB:

    Isaiah 56:8 KJB - The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

    Who is this talking about? It is Jesus Christ again, and those whom He gathers from two, to make one:

    John 10:16 KJB - And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    Jesus Himself, says that He is fulfilling the prophecy of Isaiah 56:1,8 KJB, in John 10:16 KJB. Now, go back and let us read the context between them:

    Isaiah 56:1 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

    Isaiah 56:2 KJB - Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

    Isaiah 56:3 KJB - Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

    Isaiah 56:4 KJB - For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

    Isaiah 56:5 KJB - Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

    Isaiah 56:6 KJB - Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

    Isaiah 56:7 KJB - Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

    Isaiah 56:8 KJB - The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

    Even the Gentiles were to join themselves to this “Israel”, to the LORD [JEHOVAH Immanuel] Jesus and keep God's holy seventh day the sabbath in the Everlasting Covenant?

    Matthew 10:25 KJB - It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

    Malachi 1:6 KJB - A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

    Luke 6:40 KJB - The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

    Absolutely, see its fulfillment in the New Testament [“... the Gentiles are turned to God:” - Acts 15:19 KJB, “That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called ...” - Acts 15:17 KJB, not to cast away the Tabernacle of David, no, but to build it up, see Acts 15:16-17; Amos 9:11-12 KJB, for God had winked at the ignorance of all men in the past, but now commands all men everywhere to come to Him in repentance, and come into obedience to His Law, see Acts 17:30 KJB, see Acts 4:24, 14:15-16; Revelation 10:6, 14:6-7; 2 Peter 2:21; Revelation 12:17; 14:12, 22:14 KJB].

    Hebrews 4 itself speaks of the sabbath-keeping that remains, in Hebrews 4:9.

    There is an entire study on Hebrews 4 here.
     
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  15. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    To begin with, Jesus Christ is the true Israel, the anti-type, the Israel that is not the type as Jacob was.

    Jesus is Israel (Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; his children are his disciples; Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; John 13:33), the true "overcomer" (John 16:33; Revelation 3:21), the real "Prince" with God (Isaiah 9:6; Daniel 8:11,25, 9:25, 10:13,21, 11:22, 12:1; Acts 3:15, 5:31; Revelation 1:5), being Lord over His own house, whose house are we (Psalms 98:3; Hebrews 3:6; Jeremiah 31:33), who himself is the "elect" (Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6) of the Father, in whom all the promises of God find their realization (2 Corinthians 1:20). The promises made by God were all based upon condition (Exodus 19).

    Mat 2:13-15; Hos 11:1; Jer 31:33; Rom 9:6-8; Heb 2:13; Isa 8:16,18; Jhn 13:33, 16:33, 17:12, 18:9, 21:5; 1 Cor 15:46; 2 Cor 1:20; Gal 6:16; Heb 3:6, 8:8,10; Rev 3:21

    'Israel' "after the flesh", as a 'nation', is left desolate (Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35), to bear no more fruit ever again (Matthew 21:19), cursed, withered away (Mark 11:21), dried up from the roots (Mark 11:20), "twice dead" (Jude 1:12), and the axe already laid at their root (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9), cut down and to be thrown into the fire.

    The New [or Everlasting] Covenant is only made with the spiritual “Israel” (Jesus Christ, the "elect" of the Father; Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18-20), this “Judah” (Revelation 5:5) and His “house” (2 Corinthians 1:20 KJB - For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.; – for Christ Jesus, the true “Israel” is the “elect” of God, and thus all who choose to be in Him; see Isaiah 42:1, 45:4, 65:9 KJB):

    Hebrews 3:6 KJB - But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

    Isaiah 42:1 KJB - Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

    Hebrews 8:5 KJB - Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

    Hebrews 8:6 KJB - But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

    Hebrews 8:7 KJB - For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

    Hebrews 8:8 KJB - For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

    [see Exodus 19:3-8 KJB, for the 'old covenant' is never, in all of scripture [KJB], the Ten Commandments [the perfect, righteousness, spiritual, holy, just and good and eternal Law of God; Psalms 19:7; Romans 9:31; Romans 7:14; James 1:25; Psalms 119:44-45; Romans 7:12; Psalms 89:34; Exodus 20:1-17, especially Exodus 20:8, “holy”, see Isaiah 58:13; 2 Peter 3:2 KJB], but was always the faulty promises of the peoples Israel after the flesh, made in agreement to do all that the LORD says. They failed. Why? Works and no Faith [Romans 9:32 KJB]. They [in general] attempted without God's strength [Revelation 12:10-12; Romans 5:6; 1 Corinthians 1:24 KJB], and though they were free physically, they were still slaves spiritually, that is of the heart and mind: 'all that the LORD hath said we will do', their faulty promises, and yet they did not, for they sinned by the golden calf.

    The Everlasting Covenant (Galatians 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though [it be] but a man's covenant, yet [if it be] confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.)

    This New/Everlasting/Eternal Covenant [which existed before the 'old', even from eternity, for the Father and Son clasped hands in agreement, the Holy Ghost as Witness, should [when] sin [the mystery of iniquity] arise, they would work out the plan of Redemption, thus it is “the everlasting covenant” or the covenant of life and peace, or the counsel of peace, ratified by the blood of the Son of God Himself and by the Father in Heaven, see Psalms 89:3,28,34, 105:8; Isaiah 13:12, 42:6; Malachi 2:5 [Jesus is the True Levi, meaning attached unto His Father], 3:1; John 19:30 [he finished laying the foundation, the words were unto His Father], 17:24 [the agreement in eternity past was made, Jesus kept His word, performed His vows, and now the promise from the Father was to be fulfilled]; John 3:16; John 19:28; Hebrews 13:20; Revelation 13:8; Psalms 40:7-8; Hebrews 10:7-9; Psalms 116:14-18; Ezekiel 38:23; John 17:19; John 10:18; 8:28; Psalms 110:4; Zechariah 6:13, etc., etc. for surely as the Rainbow is above God's throne, so the covenant between Father and Son, witnessed by the Holy Ghost, is eternal], made between the Father and the Son in eternity, witnessd by the Holy Ghost, was “confirmed” [“he shall confirm the covenant with many” Daniel 9:27 and "confirmed" at the first by Jesus [Hebrews 2:3; Romans 15:8] and afterward by the disciples for the remaining time] by Jesus Christ, and was mentioned at the "Last Supper" [what we would call Thursday night] [“For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” Matthew 26:28; see also Mark 14:24 “my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many” and also Luke 22:20 “cup [is] the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you” and also 1 Corinthians 11:24 “This cup is the new testament in my blood”], and thus was ratified by the shed blood of Jesus at Calvary and thus by His death [Psalms 116:14,18, and ratified by the Father upon His ascension, Psalms 61:5], which means that nothing may be removed [Luke 23:56, "Sabbath (the 7th day; God's rest) according to the commandment"] and nothing may be added ["first" [day], cannot be added, as it is far too late from Calvary] once confirmed by the death [on what we would call Friday afternoon] of the Testator - Christ Jesus [Hebrews 10:29].

    The only way to change/ratify the Covenant would be for Christ Jesus to die again [Hebrews 9:16-17] and shed additional blood [Hebrews 12:4]. And we know that Christ Jesus "once for all" [Hebrews 10:10] paid the redemption price and "dieth no more" [Romans 6:9], and is "alive for evermore" [Revelation 1:18].] is God's, “I will ...”, His Promise; more on this in detail later, as needed. The 'old covenant' is not the same as God's 'my covenant', which we establish by Faith [Romans 3:31 KJB]. They are two things, not one. God's Ten Commandments are all perfect promises, without fault.]

    The "New" Covenant was 'ratified' by the blood of Christ Jesus, who fulfilled His vows, His side of the covenant.

    Psa_116:14 I will pay my vows unto the LORD now in the presence of all his people.
    Psa_116:18 I will pay my vows unto the LORD now in the presence of all his people,

    It was 'ratified' by the Father after Christ Jesus ascended the first time, and accepted the Selfless Sacrifice of the Son.

    Psa_61:5 For thou, O God, hast heard my vows: thou hast given me the heritage of those that fear thy name.
     
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  16. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Actually, we're doing as John the Baptist before us, for we love you. Therefore, consider the question, as he asked:

    "... O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? ..."

    What was John the Baptist asking? He wasn't being cruel. He was asking if they understood who the messenger was that was speaking to them, and if they understood the message given him as it was foretold. Therefore, likewise, we are the final Elijah to you. Go and learn in scripture who we are, and "Who hath warned you to flee from the wrath (7LP) to come?"
     
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  17. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    I talk about those things quite frequently. As for kindling a fire, several things are involved. For instance:

    Pro_16:27 An ungodly man diggeth up evil: and in his lips there is as a burning fire.

    Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

    Jas_3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
    Jas_3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

    Truly "burnt offerings" are still required, as it is written (Matthew 5:18). Thus:

    Psa_4:5 Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put your trust in the LORD.

    Psa_51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

    Heb_13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

    For these are salted with "fire", the Holy Ghost:

    Mar_9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

    Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

    As for the "dwelling" of the Saints, that is in the 3rd Heaven, the "camp of the saints", New Jerusalem, and thus we are not to leave through doubt, but dwell therein by faith, having our names presently written there, and thus, we are not to sin, bringing in burden. Thus we remain in the "place" through faith. There ought to be no buying and selling upon sabbath, but that is even not the depths, for there is extortion in unforgiveness (ask God what I mean), and there is exchanging of God's character for that which is as nothing.

    You understand so little, not because God does not desire to give it to you, but because you yourself refuse it.
     
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  18. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Well that is not true. We are not living in the OLD COVENANT under the civil laws of the nation of ISRAEL. We are in the NEW COVENANT now brother where have you been? Death penalty is still in place for all sin in the NEW COVENANT to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *ROMANS 6:23; ROMANS 8:13 though Vengence is now God's.

    ROMANS 12:17-19 [17] Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. [18] If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. [19] Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.

    REVELATION 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

    Yep would not like to be in the shoes of those who practice sin at the second coming when many only find out too late that they lost their salvation thinking they were saved but did not believe and follow what God says *MATTHEW 7:22-26; HEBREWS 10:26-39

    May you receive God's WORD and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it dissappear.
     
    #18 3rdAngel, Oct 24, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  19. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Yet here you are brother with only God's Word shared with you that you cannot deny is true through the scriptures. Please perhaps you might like to prove from the scriptures what is being shared with you is as you say "ungodly" and "unbiblical"? If you cannot why do you make claims you cannot prove with the scriptures when only God's WORD is shared with you? Something to think about. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear by calling God's Word "ungodly" and "unbiblical" when the very word you proclaim as such come from God and his Word.
     
  20. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Indeed, that is why you are only full of name calling and false accusations you cannot prove from the scriptures. If you have God's Word than share it. If you do not why do you not believe Gods' WORD? It is simply because you are not from God. As it is written; he whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure to him *JOHN 3:34. The very Word of God we deny and reject will be our judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48. Sadly at that time it will be too late for many that had the chance to hear God's Word but closed their eyes and ears to the Spirit of God to reject God's Word and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God *HEBREWS 10:26-39.
     
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