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GOD'S WORD vs THE TEACHINGS AND TRADITIONS OF MEN

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by 3rdAngel, Oct 23, 2019.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    They elevate her to the place beyond even the Apostles, she might as well be God himself speaking to them!
     
    #61 Yeshua1, Oct 30, 2019
  2. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Thankyou for blessing me *MATTHEW 5:11-12. Making false accusations and telling lies will not help you brother it is simply your distraction in order not to addres the posts and scriptures that have only been sent in love and as a help to you that show why you are in error. What is it that I have shared with you that is not God's Word? If I have only shared God's WORD with you than why do you not believe it? You can believe and follow God's WORD of not it is up to you. There is no need to speak things that are not true when only the truth has been shared with you.
     
    #62 3rdAngel, Oct 30, 2019
  3. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    You have only been provided God's WORD. God's Word is not my words but God's. In response you provide your words which are not God's but yours in order to deny God's Word. If I have only provided God's Word to you that are not my words but God's Word why do you not believe them?

    If that were true you should be able to provide scripture that shows that "THE LORDS DAY" is "SUNDAY" or "THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK" yet you have no scripture to support this teaching and tradition and it is not biblical because the scriptures alone state that "THE SABBATH DAY IS THE LORDS DAY" *MATTHEW 12:8 not the first day of the week.

    There is no riddles brother. You have only been provided God's WORD and asked questions to support your teachings. We either have God's WORD to support our faith or we do not. It seems from our conversation you do not. If you do not than the question we should consider if we honestly want to follow God is; who do I believe and follow; God or man?

    Not following God's Word is the same as breaking it. If you do not keep God's 4th commandment than your teaching that it is abolished. If you believe it is not abolished than why do you not keep it.

    May you receive God's Word and be blessed.
     
    #63 3rdAngel, Oct 30, 2019
  4. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Your response...
    You have only been provided God's WORD and God's Word is not my words but God's. In response here you are again only providing your own words which are not God's but yours in order to deny God's Word. If I have only told you the truth why do you not believe it? Only God's Word is true my dear brother and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. According to JESUS all those who KNOWINGLY follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God.

    God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not are not from God *JOHN 10:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.
     
    #64 3rdAngel, Oct 30, 2019
  5. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    I have only told you the truth but you do not believe it. For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day.
     
    #65 3rdAngel, Oct 30, 2019
  6. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Your false accusation and name calling are simply a distraction from the truth of God's WORD. What is it that I have shared with you from God's WORD that you claim is not true? If I have only told you the truth, why do you not believe it?

    There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. Your Words are not directed towards me but to the one who the Word belongs. The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord.

    If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? There is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops.

    Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him.

    God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow because they are not His Sheep *JOHN 10:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27.

    Sin (breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14.

    Whose side are you on?
     
    #66 3rdAngel, Oct 30, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  7. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Something to think about. Who do you believe and follow; the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God?

    The challenge I am putting up here is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

    1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

    2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

    3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

    4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

    5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

    6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

    7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

    8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

    9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

    10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

    11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

    12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

    13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

    14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

    15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

    16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

    17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

    18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

    19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

    21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

    22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

    23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

    25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

    27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

    ...................

    Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

    God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

    MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
    [3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
    [4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
    [5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
    [6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
    [7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
    [8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
    [9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments according to JESUS we are not worshipping God.

    Look forward to your thoughts...
     
    #67 3rdAngel, Oct 30, 2019
  8. MarysSon

    MarysSon Active Member

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    I will engage you in further conversation - ONLY when YOU . . .
    1.     Show me where Scripture states that Scripture is our sole Authority (Sola Scriptura)
    2. Stop being dishonest about this nonsense about ANYBODY claiming the Sabbath was "abolished". I made it clear that Christ FULFILLED the Sabbath - He didn't "abolish" it.

    If you can do those 2 things - then we can have an intelligent, charitable discourse.
    Otherwise - it would seem you are unwilling to do so . . .
     
    #68 MarysSon, Oct 30, 2019
  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    1. Sure let's go the extra mile... Paul said "let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That you might be justified in your sayings, and might overcome when you are judged" *ROMANS 3:4. "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men." ACTS 5:29. JESUS says we are only his disciples if we believe and follow his Word *JOHN 10:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27; JOHN 8:31-36 and that we are made Holy by believing his Word *JOHN 17:17 or lost by not believing his Words JOHN 3:15-21 and that if we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God we are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. Yep pretty clear that only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS 5:29 over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.

    2. Christ fulfilled all of God's LAWS in order to fulfill all rightouesness. If he didn't he could not be our perfect sacrifice. JESUS did not fulfill God's LAW in order for us to break it but that it might be fulfilled in it who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit *ROMANS 8:1-4. All those who continue in sin after they receive a knowledge of the truth will die *ROMANS 8:13 because they count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and reject the gift of God's dear son *HEBREWS 10:26-39; ROMANS 6:23. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandment that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; EXODUS 20:1-17. According to God's WORD if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. If you know God's 4th commandment has not been abolished than there is no excuse for you to break it.

    Look forward to our discussion or will you make an excuse not to do so?
     
    #69 3rdAngel, Oct 31, 2019
  10. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Ok let's start off with these... (scripture only please)

    1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

    2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

    3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

    4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

    5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

    6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

    7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

    8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

    9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

    10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

    11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

    12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

    13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

    14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

    15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

    16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

    17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

    18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

    19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

    21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

    22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

    23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

    25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

    27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

    ...................

    Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

    God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

    MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
    [3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
    [4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
    [5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
    [6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
    [7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
    [8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
    [9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments according to JESUS we are not worshipping God.
     
    #70 3rdAngel, Oct 31, 2019
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  11. Deadworm

    Deadworm Member

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    There are 2 key points that Baptists don't seem to get:
    (1) The NT doesn't exist as a completed canon in the first century. So the NT does not and cannot refer to its own divine inspiration as a literary corpus.
    (2) The NT revelation may we "sufficient" for basic faith and life, but it is very incomplete in the issues it explicitly addresses. That is why there are so many denominations and why there are so many disagreements about the implication and relevance of specific alleged proof texts. For example, both liberals and conservatives claim biblical authority for their pro-choice and pro-life positions on abortion. What settles the case is Catholic tradition, beginning with the first-century Christian manual, Didache 4:2: "Thou shalt not procure an abortion." For good reason Methodists insist on the authority of the Wesleyan Quadrilateral: the authority of Scripture, Tradition, experience, and reason.
     
    #71 Deadworm, Oct 31, 2019
  12. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    You are correct, the 7th day that was set aside for worship is also still in effect for the Jews. Plus the adherence to Jewish dietary laws, circumcision and all the other 600+ laws that the Jew must do to be acceptable to God.

    We Christians on the other hand have been freed from all that. Our worship day was changed through the "bind and loose" doctrine, it became one of the "traditions" started by the early leaders of the church that we were commanded to stand firm in (2 Thess 2:15).

    It is reflected in the 2000 plus year history of the Christian Church where 99.9% of professing Christians worshipped and continue to worship on Sunday. It is a doctrine that was proclaimed and is sustained by virtually all Christian theologians throughout the ages and anyone who says otherwise is just plain wrong.
     
    #72 Adonia, Oct 31, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  13. Deadworm

    Deadworm Member

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    The Gospel of Peter (c. 125 AD) uses the Greek "kyriake" to designate Sunday, the day of Jesus' resurrection, as "the Lord's Day (9:35; 12:50)." This establishes Sunday as the Christian day of worship envisaged by the use of "kyriake" in Revelation 1:10. It is irrelevant to point out that the Gospel of Peter is noncanonical; its value is to establish the contemporary meaning of the word "kyriake." Paul instructs the Corinthians to set aside their collection on Sunday, the first day of the week (1 Corinthians 16:2). If there was any doubt that the collection was taken on Sunday, the day of worship, that doubt is removed by Romans 14:5: "Some judge one day as better than another; while others judge all days the same. Let everyone be fully convinced in his own mind."
    Here Paul is trying to placate Jewish Christians who cling to Sabbath observance instead of apostolically established Sunday worship.
     
    #73 Deadworm, Oct 31, 2019
  14. MarysSon

    MarysSon Active Member

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    Time for a Bible AND a History lesson . . .

    First of all – the word “Scripture” means the WRITTEN Word. NOWHERE does the Bible ever state that the Written word is our sole Authority. As a matter of fact – the Bible tells us that Sacred Tradition (Apostolic Oral Teaching) is ON PAR with the written Word (Scripture):

    2 Thess. 2:15
    Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the TRADITIONS that you were taught, EITHER BY an oral statement OR BY a letter of ours.


    It’s one OR the other - NOT just the written.

    Now – an Ellen G. White adherent like yourself might say that this was ONLY the case until the Bible was fully written. HOWEVER, there is NO expiration date on 2 Thess. 2:15 because the Canon of Scripture itself is a Catholic Tradition. To deny this is to deny history.

    The Canon of Scripture was first officially declared at the Council of Rome in 382.

    It was reiterated at the Synod of Hippo on 393. Augustine was among the Bishops who signed the approval.

    In 397, it was later approved at the Council of Carthage.

    It was finally closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century.

    Finally – your point #1 is based on a LIE.
    I have repeatedly stated that the Sabbath was never “abolished” but FULFILLED.

    If you can’t stay honest – then we can’t have an intelligent discourse.
     
    #74 MarysSon, Oct 31, 2019
  15. MarysSon

    MarysSon Active Member

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    One more thing . . .

    The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) is a FIRST CENTURY document – written while most of the Apostles were still alive.
    It documents their teachings and practices to be used throughout the Church.
    Section 14 is about meeting – on the LORD’S DAY . . .

    Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day
    But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations.

    The Greek word used here is “Kyriakin”, which is commonly translated as “SUNDAY”.

    Here are some further examples of Early Christian observances of Sunday as “The Lord’s Day” . . .

    The Epistle of Barnabas - AD 74
    Further, He says to them, “Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure.” Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens. (The Epistle of Barnabas Chapter XV.—The false and the true Sabbath. [A.D. 74]).

    Ignatius of Antioch – AD 107
    If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master.
    (Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

    During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection. (The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

    Justin Martyr - AD 155

    But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
    (First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

    It is blindingly clear to everybody except for militant, agenda-driven Sabbatarians like yourself who keep their heads buried in the sand - that the Early Christians adopted Sunday as “The Lord’s Day” . . .
     
    #75 MarysSon, Oct 31, 2019
  16. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    As the OP is now banned. This thread is closed.
     
    #76 Squire Robertsson, Oct 31, 2019
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