1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured A Scripture question [particularly for Calvinists]

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Oct 26, 2019.

  1. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    94
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I did show it is wrong.

    I showed the error and the correct version
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,890
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I either missed it or did not understand your argument being definitive, that it cannot be understood any other way.
     
  3. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    94
    Faith:
    Baptist
    the new believers, Hebrews, did not need again to received the initial call of Salvation because they were true believers and no one can fall away because it is impossible to re crucify Christ . He list things a true believer experiences ut to fall away suggest Christ is not all powerful but is subject to our sin. He died for all sin, total not just the ones committed.

    He went to go one to maturity of these new Christians

    There is no punctuation in Greek
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,890
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That would seem to be a totally plausible understanding of the writers argument. How can we show it is the sole valid argument?
     
  5. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    94
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Diagram the sentence, as in HS English class,
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,890
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Really. I never, sadly ever diagamed a sentence in my life. English grammar was my worst subject. You diagram it for me. Any grammar I migth know, which is very very little, comes from looking at Greek grammar. So what ever interest I have in grammar comes from my study of the Bible. Greek grammar are the word endings, and sometimes prefixes. Greek grammar is in the spellings of the Greek words. English is the word order. Old English is some what different than our modern English. "ye are" could be in modern English "you have been." From the Greek, "God was the Logos," in English the word order needs to be "the Word was God." And I see what looks like exceptions being made too. Instead of "The Word was in the beginning," the Greek word order is kept, "In the beginning was the Word." With Genesis 1:1 in mind.

    And your suggestion was not a bad suggestion by any means.

    https://timmybrister.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Disciple-Making-and-Sentence-Diagramming.pdf
     
    #86 37818, Nov 4, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,890
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    .

    Whether one says it speaks of a believer or one who heard and simply failed to believe for what ever reason, it describes an impossibility, what collectively as a whole cannot happen.
     
  8. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    94
    Faith:
    Baptist
    no part of this says one failed to believe, That is man made. error The writer says they did believable and it was not necessary to discuss salvation again, because one cannot not fall away one experiencing this Heavenly Gift. but He wants to discuss growth or perfection as a Christian Which is discussed in the rest of the chapter
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,890
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is an interpreation of what it says about "them." The text does not explicitly say that they where saved or not. The term "believed" is not used, though it can be surmised that "they" did believe from what is describe of "them" in the text. (Stony ground in the parable of the Sower, could be supposed.)
     
  10. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    94
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Who is the writer addressing?
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,890
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not us. We where not around. Only to Jewish Christians. Then does that mean it cannot apply to us? ". . . know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live. . . ." -- Deuteronomy 8:3.
    It describes an impossible. And after making that argument writes his audience, ". . . But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. . . ." -- Hebrews 6:9. Which can be understood that that impossible did not pretain to obtaining salvation. Unless you think one can be saved and lost. That would not be Calvinism.
     
  12. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    94
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He was addressing Christian converts who were Hebrews and showing how Jesus is better than the Law. These were true believers.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...