Featured TITHEMI Translation choices

Gee, does that mean Luke 1:66 and Luke 22:41 are not the same idiom?

 

I am a bible student, trained by staff members of my church. I share part of my study here to encourage others to consider the intended message of God, and to foster discussion where views differ.

 

Yet another off topic effort to smear me. Did I say I translate from original languages, or do I use interlinears, lexicons, footnotes, study notes, commentaries, and comparison with other English translations?

On and on, they demean others, but provide no improved choices for Tithemi.

 

Apparently we have no views as to why the same Greek construction is translated "knelt down" and "fall on their knees."

 

If we look at Acts of the Apostles 5:4 we find a variety of ways to translate "tithemi." Conceived, planned, put in, cherished, purposed, set, thought up, decided, and contrived. Here I think set forth captures the idea better, the evil plan was not just conceived, it was developed, arranged and set forth in his heart as a plan of action.

 

Not to put to fine point on it, but both the KJV and CSB consistently translated it as kneeled down and knelt down. And in three of the four verses, so did the NASB team. However, the same team altered the translation in the fourth verse. Why not use the same translation choice.

 

Hi JOJ, you are one of those translators and asked you, but you seem not to know why the NASB team used knelt down 3 of 4 times and fall on their knees the fourth time.

 

I totally agree with this post, spot on!

 

Let's take a second look at this usage:

2 Corinthians 5:19, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Set forth better captures the idea of reconciliation being provided through the whole gospel.

Other versions translate tithemi here as "put in us," "entrusted to us," "given to us," but the vast majority do go with committed. Another better choice, rather than "word of reconciliation" is teaching or message of reconciliation. If we improve that choice, then "set forth" jumps of the page, "He has set forth to us the message (doctrine, teaching) of reconciliation. The whole gospel is the message of reconciliation.

 

Continuing our review of the phrase "fall or falling on his knees" we find other verses that translate another word in a similar manner.

Another Greek word (G1120) "gonypeteō" is a compound of "knee and fall" and is translated many different ways because contextually the idea is to worship or plead before a person. It appears in four verses (Matthew 17:14, Matthew 27:29, Mark 1:40 and Mark 10:17.

This word fits the translation "falling on his knees" whereas placing knees (kneeling down) does not seem to carry the same idea.

 

No one is going by the literal meaning, falling on his knees presents an idiomatic meaning expressing worship or pleading. The NASB used the idiomatic meaning of gonypetro and assigned the meaning to a phrase that does not carry that meaning.

And to repeat, the NASB 3 of 4 times rendered the phrase knelt down, and only one time with the idiomatic meaning of another Greek word.

The question we must ask is why do we find so many unforced errors in the translation choices.

 

Let's look at a few more usages of "tithemi:"

Mark 4:30, "And He said, "How shall we picture the kingdom of God, or by what parable shall we present it?"
From the OP we see that "present" is in fact included in the third meaning of tithemi. One version used "set it forth" but the rest used explained, described, illustrated and so forth.

Luke 1:66 "All who heard them kept them in mind, saying, "What then will this child turn out to be?" For the hand of the Lord was certainly with him." Here we have the other idiom presented by JOJ, and again it is translated in many different ways. "Took it to heart" seems to best reflect the idiom.

Luke 9:44, ""Let these words sink into your ears; for the Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men." Here the literal translation might be, "you be placing into the ears of you" but the intended idiomatic means might be better rendered "take these words to heart" or "listen carefully and remember."

Luke 20:43, Acts 2:35, Hebrews 10:13, "UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET." In my opinion, a superior idiomatic rendering would be "until I place your enemies under your feet." But again we must ask, how far from the literal should we go in the name of real or imagined idiomatic translation.

Luke 21:14, "So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves;" Again, this could be translated as "be resolved" or more idiomatically as "take it to heart."

John 2:10, "and said to him, "Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now." Here "sets out" better translates tithemi.

Acts 19:21, "Now after these things were finished, Paul purposed in the spirit to go to Jerusalem after he had passed through Macedonia and Achaia, saying, "After I have been there, I must also see Rome." We find decided, determined, purposed, and resolved. I think "resolved by the Spirit" best presents the intended message.

 

“Tithemi” has three basic meanings, to set something somewhere; (2) to change the status of someone for a purpose; and (3) to present or set forth an idea or account, such as set forth the gospel.

The first basic meaning is to put, place, set, or lay something somewhere. This meaning is by far the most common meaning found in scripture.

The second basic meaning, to change the status of someone for a purpose, either by designating a person for a task or office, or by establishing needed characteristics of a person such that they can complete a task or fulfill the requirements of the office.

The third basic meaning is to present or set forth something, such as to set forth the gospel.

The second and third basic meaning can be translated into English using designate or assign, establish, and set forth.

Lets look at the verses where the second or third basic meaning appears to be the intended meaning:

Matthew 24:51, and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mark 4:30, "And He said, "How shall we picture the kingdom of God, or by what parable shall we present it?"

Luke 1:66 "All who heard them took it to heard, saying, "What then will this child turn out to be?" For the hand of the Lord was certainly with him."

Luke 9:44, "Take these words to heart; for the Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men."

Luke 12:46, the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

Luke 20:43, Acts 2:35, Hebrews 10:13, "UNTIL I place your enemies under your feet "

Luke 21:14, "So take it to heart not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves;"

John 2:10, "and said to him, "Every man sets out the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now."

John 15:16, You did not choose Me but I chose you, and equipped you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

Acts 1:7, He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has designated by His own authority;

Acts 5:4, While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have set forth this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

Acts 13:47, For so the Lord has commanded us, ‘I HAVE ESTABLISHED YOU AS A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES, THAT YOU MAY BRING SALVATION TO THE END OF THE EARTH.’

Acts 19:21, "Now after these things were finished, Paul resolved with the Spirit to go to Jerusalem after he had passed through Macedonia and Achaia, saying, "After I have been there, I must also see Rome."

Acts 20:28, Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has established you overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood.

Acts 27:12, Because the harbor was not suitable for wintering, the majority set forth a decision to put out to sea from there, if somehow they could reach Phoenix, a harbor of Crete, facing southwest and northwest, and spend the winter there.

Romans 4:17, (as it is written, “A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I ESTABLISHED YOU”) in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.

1 Corinthians 9:18, “What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may set forth the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

1 Corinthians 12:18 But now God has established the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired.

1 Corinthians 12:28, And God has established in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

2 Corinthians 5:19, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has set forth to us the word of reconciliation.

1 Thessalonians 5:9, For God has not designated us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Timothy 2:7, For this I was established as a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

2 Timothy 1:11, for which I was established as a preacher and an apostle and a teacher.

Hebrews 1:2, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He established as heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

1 Peter 2:8, and, “A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also assigned.

2 Peter 2:6, and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having set them forth as an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

In summary, G5087, tithemi, is used about 19 times where the meaning is designate or assign(5 times), establish (9 times), and set forth (5 times.)

One of the key insights arising from this word study is that God did not just assign a person to an office or task, many times He equipped the person,i.e. gifts of the Holy Spirit, so as to establish the person for that task or office.

Tithemi is one of the words that means "appoint unilaterally" and thus can be translated as designate, assign, or establish. This avoids overlap with another Greek word that is translated "appointed" and refers to an appointment made by mutual consent.