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Calvinism is the Gospel

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Dec 25, 2019.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    JonC,

    Hello JONC,
    Knowing that God is sovereign I would say not one. As a Calvinist grows in grace, he also grows in making a biblically accurate presentation.

    Spurgeon spoke against hyper-Calvinists. He also would allude to some who had wrong motives as Jerome is quick and quite eager to point out.

     
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  2. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    This destroys Arminianism.
    There are no other people who get saved except those God gives to Christ.
    They come to Christ, but beforehand they are given to Christ.
    What truly comes first? being given or coming to Christ.

    John 6
    35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
     
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  3. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Stop for a moment. Take a deep breath and look at the big picture. No one is putting up with false teachings. I disagree vehemently with the Arminian/Free Will/Synergist/Non-Calvinist (take your pick) view of the Gospel. I have never shied away from a vigorous debate. But ask yourself the question I posed in my previous post. Is your goal to persuade your brother of the truth? If it is, do you not think how you say things is as important as what you say?
     
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  4. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    You do not persuade people to believe, you simply witness to the TRUTH. God is the decider, He is the author and finisher of any person's faith.
     
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  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    There have been several persons who did not agree with the teaching in full, so they
    voice objections. In time they saw it, so we have to be patient2tim2;24-26
     
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I did not make an accusation against Calvinism.

    I asked you four questions:

    Do you believe the gospel is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe?

    Do you believe anything less than the true gospel is sufficient for salvation?

    Do you believe there is one true gospel?

    Do you believe Calvinism is the power of God to salvation for all who believe?
     
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  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Iconoclast,

    I will ask you the same questions I asked Scott. I think it will help me know where you are coming from a little better.

    Do you believe the gospel is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe?

    Do you believe anything less than the true gospel is sufficient for salvation?

    Do you believe there is one true gospel?

    Do you believe Calvinism is the power of God to salvation for all who believe?
     
  8. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I used the word "persuade" in the same way Luke used it to describe what Paul did in Acts 19:8, all the while understanding that everything is by the grace of God.
     
  9. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    You can speak good words, but God is the one at work changing the heart.
     
  10. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Your last question is meant to disrespect Calvinism though.
    I see the same thing in some others here who post talking about the evil God of Calvinism that Calvinists believe in an evil God.
    .
     
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Calvinism is not the gospel
     
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  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    My questions are not disrespectful at all. They are asked sincerely with the expection you would be ready to answer to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you. (1 Peter 3:15). There is no need to be ashamed of your belief, Scott. I am not here to ridicule you for your faith. I was a Calvinist so I know what you believe in that regard, but this does not mean I know your understanding.

    Do you believe the gospel is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe?

    Do you believe anything less than the true gospel is sufficient for salvation?

    Do you believe there is one true gospel?

    Do you believe Calvinism is the power of God to salvation for all who believe?
     
  13. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Every single person who is born into this world is evil by their nature, and they all of them follow after the prince of the power of the air, that is the devil, Satan, and to him they give their allegiance and they follow the lusts of the flesh. All are sinners and God never promised to save all mankind as in each and every person.
    There is enmity between God and fallen men, and that has not been removed. Since they have such enmity or hatred of God and Christ they can not be submitted to God's laws, nor can they.unless God does His work in them, they will never have the enmity removed and will remain slaves of sin and the devil and continue to pursue the lusts of their flesh.

    God's promise is He will save some from each nation, tribe, people and tongue.
    Redeeming them by the blood of Christ shed for them.
    Not everyone is redeemed, in the OT Law, if a person is not redeemed who had been dedicated to the Lord for destruction, they were destroyed.

    Revelation 5
    9 And they sang a new song, saying:

    “You are worthy to take the scroll,
    And to open its seals;
    For You were slain,
    And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
    Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
    10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
    And we shall reign on the earth.”

    God's promise is to destroy the wicked in hell. God tells us the soul that sins shall die, so then they are dedicated to destruction, unless the Lord shows to them his mercy and compassion and that His mercy and compassion does not depend on what the man desires, wills or does..Man's works do not count, nor does man's will.
    .
    14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
     
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  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    JonC,

    That's fine.

    Yes< I believe all that Paul spoke about this starting in romans 1 and going through the book of Romans.
    15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

    16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    [QUOTE]Do you believe anything less than the true gospel is sufficient for salvation?[/QUOTE]

    I am not certain of how you define the true gospel. Whatever portion of the gospel God uses would be sufficient,Gal.
    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

    9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.


    Again , I think the good news has been delivered and believed in many ways, but the one truth in common is the work of the promised seed, the Lord Jesus Christ;

    15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


    The belief system called Calvinism rightly understood and believed[according to the scriptures] is the power of God unto salvation because it is Christ-centered taking in all the scripture and not only presenting man's fall into sin and death, spiritual and physical death at the fall, but God's solution the lord Jesus Christ denying a covenant death for All the Father gave to Him.

    LK24:
    25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

    26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

    27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
    44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you,
    while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

    45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

    46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

    47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

    48 And ye are witnesses of these things.


     
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  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Calvinism is not the gospel.
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    SD, we cannot persuade natural men to believe, unless and until God gives them a new heart. We do not know when that is, so we can obey God and remove obstacles that natural men have to the truth of the gospel;
    1cor2:
    2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

    2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

    3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

    4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

    5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

    6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

    7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

    8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
    2cor2:
    12 Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ's gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord,

    13 I had no rest in my spirit, because I found not Titus my brother: but taking my leave of them, I went from thence into Macedonia.

    14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

    15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

    16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

    17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

    2cor5
    11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

    12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.

    13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
     
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  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Okay...what do you mean by that?
    What do you believe is the gospel?
    Just the historic facts? or the historic facts as pointed to and explained by all the scriptures?
     
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Thank you for the reply, Iconoclast. As you know I am a pretty simple guy. I like the idea of letting our "yes be yes" and our "no be no".

    I understand (please correct me if I misunderstood your words) that you do believe the gospel is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe.

    So I take it you are not claiming that the gospel is less than the power of God towards salvation. Is that fair?

    Do you believe anything less than the gospel is the power of God unto salvation?


    Do you believe that Calvinism is the power of God unto salvation?
     
  19. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Dunno what "Calvinism" is, unless you're speaking about what the opponents of God's Gospel of grace are calling it these days...
    But I do know that God's every word is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe them .

    All who do not are just kidding themselves.

    Time for me to go, Jon...it's been very interesting.
    I've also learned a lot, such as that some people on this forum can say anything they like to anyone, and get away with it...
    While others can't even declare the simplest truths from Scripture without being put under a microscope for it.

    This place is biased...and it's not in favor of what God's word actually says.

    I wish you well.:)
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I wish you well also. I have not engaged you lately (I have not been very active on this side of the board) but have always enjoyed your contributions.

    To answer your question, in regards to Baptist theology Calvinism is the position articulated from the "five points" which were an answer to the "five articles". In part Calvinism is the affirmation of the total depravity of man, the unconditional (and individual) election of men, a limited scope of the atonement (that Christ bore the sins of only the elect), that God's grace in salvation cannot be overcome by man, and that the elect will endure to the end. This is summarized as TULIP (Total Depravity, Unconditional election, Limited Atonement,Irresistible Grace, Perseverance of the Saints). Generally in a Baptist context "Calvinism" refers strictly to soteriological aspects and not "Calvinism" as a historical movement.

    And yes, it should always be about what God's word actually says. I absolutely agree.

    For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes. Romans 1:16
     
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