Featured The Limited Atonement

No, no!

If anything my mind shows consistent need for it no longer seems to hold in viable form the understandings it once easily could access.

So, no, it is not you, but me that was needy.

I cling to the thinking all sin of the universe being resolved by the blood, not for salvation, but that reconciliation may be honestly offered to all. Yet, know that only those in whom The Father gives to the Son will be saved.

At the last judgement, the books are opened. All are judged according to that written in those books concerning the life lived. There is no rebuke for sinful living stated in that judgment, for “all have sinned.” Everyone has not met the standard called “righteousness.”

What is remarkable is that only the names recorded in the book of life are not condemned. Though all have sinned, there is “no condemnation...”. Righteousness is a gift.

 

In case I missed something:

Does your thinking blend the blood, death, resurrection all into the single word atonement?

 

What does God declare about His atoning sacrifice? Is it universal/unlimited or is it limited?
If humans have the ability to reject the effects of the atonement, then the atonement is limited.
What humans declare is irrelevant. What God declares is relevant.

 

The atonement is the shed blood and its effect in paying for sin. Christ's shed blood as a sacrificial atonement at his death. Proof of sin being paid by God for man is God's resurrection.

I confess, I don't understand your question or precisely what point you are attempting to make.

Either Jesus death paid for my sins in full or it didn't.
The question is whether it is paid in full for all humans or only for those who believe.

 

AW.Pink once again

All false ideas of the Atonement ignore the Eternal Covenant of Redemption;
In the Covenant, Christ had said to the Father, "I will declare your name unto my brethren, in the midst of the Church will I sing praise unto you. And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God has given me" (Hebrews 2:12, 13). Most blessedly is this explained in what immediately follows: "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same," and therefore "He is not ashamed to call them brethren." Federation is the root of this amazing mercy, covenant - identification is the key which explains it. Christ came not to strangers, but to "brethren"; He came here not to procure a people for Himself, but to secure a people already His (Ephesians 1:4; Matthew 1:21).

Since such a union has existed between Christ and His people from all eternity, it inevitably followed that, when He came to earth, He must bear their sins, and now that He has gone to Heaven they must be clothed (Isaiah 61:10) with all the rewardableness of His perfect obedience. This is the strongest buttress of all in the walls of Truth, yet the one which has been most frequently assailed by its enemies. Men have argued that the punishment of the Innocent as though He were guilty was an outrage upon justice. In the human realm, to punish a man for something of which he is neither responsible nor guilty, is, beyond question, unjust. But this principle did not apply to Christ, for He had voluntarily identified Himself with His people in such an intimate way that it could be said, "For both He who sanctifies, and they who are sanctified, are all of one" (Hebrews 2:11).

When we say that the union between Christ and His people is a federal one, we mean that it is of such a nature as to involve an identification of legal relations and reciprocal obligations and rights: "By the obedience of One shall many be made [legally constituted] righteous" (Romans 5:19). God's elect were "chosen in Christ" (Ephesians 1:4). They are "created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:10). They were circumcised in Him (Colossians 2:11). They are "made the righteousness of God in him" (2 Corinthians 5: 21). In view of this ineffable union, Scripture does not hesitate to say, "We are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones" (Ephesians 4:30).

 

The point is, this example generation was atoned for by Moses, sprinkled with blood with a hyssop branch. But later we're told they did not mix their knowledge with faith.

We also see these interesting revelations:

1John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.​

In what sense is Christ the propitiation for the whole world?

2Pet. 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.​

In what sense are false prophets purchased by the Lord?

We know not all are saved. Not saying I have a perfect answer, just that these texts seem to suggest some problems with limited atonement. Could there be a sense in which it is universal, yet not effective for all?

 

I think I see where I am confusing you.

Let me help you understand my own perspective and see in what areas agreement is found.

First the forensics, then the applications.

History teaches that the Roman crucifixion was not a blood letting event. Truly, they wanted the person to last as long as possible that the torture would be prolonged for days.

The blood on the cross was certainly there, but far more was slathered in the judgment halls and along the roads. (Isaiah 53)

It is that shedding of blood that is for the remission of sins, the sprinkling upon the alter was the presentation of the shed blood not the shedding of blood.

What took place then upon the cross was the death. How the savior died, the validation of death by the wounded side of which blood and water escaped. They did not pump and were not pushed other than by the force of air trapped in the lungs as the lungs deflated. The natural circulation of blood had no pressure. The flow was as one might expect from anything dead - gravity not pressure. Such as one might expect when fresh but dead fish are cleaned, blood smeared.

The cross was the tool of death, just as the tomb was the tool of resurrection. Without either, the atonement for believers could not be accomplished.

Therefore, when I look upon the crucifixion, I do not limit it to only the cross and tomb, but see that it begins in the garden where sin first occurred. It encompasses the religious and civil authorities, the common people. “It is finished” was the pronouncement of the Savior for himself as it pertained to His sacrifice, but it was not finished for humankind. The blood was shed, the lamb was slain, yet there was more to be done. More the OT pictures presented

The vail rent, the body removal, the presence in paradise, ... much more than I have strength to write.

Now to your question (statement).

The shed blood certainly (as John states) paid for all sin, of all creation. However, that does not automatically lead to universal salvation. To think that it does is to be far too narrowly presenting the atonement as the OT presented in picture form.

There was also washings, garment changes, public presentations, scapegoats, more sacrifices, cleansings, so much more.

Redemption is specific. It is particular to those to whom the Father gives to the Son. To those in whom God gives the power to believe and so done demonstrate He adopted them.

Redemption is based upon the death and resurrection, for the blood was shed for the universe, but Christ died and rose for His sheep.

Now do not become too exercised in this matter, for I see no reason to trouble your spirit.

I am merely hoping to make what my Redeemer accomplished more precious as you continue your thinking.

The cross is certainly not wonderful, but was most wondrous.

What he endured prior to the cross is unimaginable.

The care of taking him from the cross to the tomb and leaving him there, what glory it brings.

His presence in paradise to preach, his presence before the Father to grasp and remove the scroll, and so much more.

Foundational in this presentation is that found in Hebrews 9:

11But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

15Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.h16For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. 17For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive. 18Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood. 19For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20saying, “This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you.” 21And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship. 22Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

23Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as they high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many (abundant, all, innumerable, numerous, enough,...), will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

​

 

In my post above, I failed to mention that the OT atonement day was for all in the land, both believers and strangers.

However, the presentation is not salvation.

The key is belief.

 

Thank you.
So I simplify this.
God the Father saw God the Son's death as a perfect sacrificial atonement, better than the temple sacrifices. There is no need to break down all the parts to identify the exact moment in which the sacrifice is acceptable. It is enough to know that God said "it is finished" and to read that glorious passage in Hebrews that confirms it.

The question then is whether the blood was sprinkled upon all humanity or upon the elect. The blood cleanses us and makes us white as snow. If it falls upon all humanity then all humanity is made white as snow. If it falls only upon the elect then only the elect are white as snow.

 

You are over thinking this.
Either Christ atoned for all humanity, which means all humanity is effectively made righteous and perfect in Christ...or Christ atoned for the elect, which means all the elect are effectively made righteous and perfect in Christ.
How are the elect identified? They believe the good news of reconciliation with God.
So, the sacrificial atonement is past, present, future.

 

Or, third option, atonement isn't a synonym for salvation?

 

You cannot be saved without being atoned. If you are not atoned you cannot be saved.
If you are atoned, you are saved. Your sins are no longer held against you.
Those who are atoned believe. Those who are not atoned do not believe.
People want to place salvation on a timeline. Salvation is from God. It isn't on a timeline, it is God's choice from before the foundation of the world.

 

Again, you're over thinking. Scripture is less complicated than you are on the subject. It's one reason why I leave theologians to their ivory castles. Just observe scripture and believe. It's not complicated.

 

Without a theologians help. there is no tulip.

Which is why you can't uphold your beliefs with scripture alone, things need to be explained away.

 

Nah. The salvation process is right in scripture. No need for tulip to observe the five points in scripture. It's just a human way to point out what is there in scripture.