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Much ado about agape?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by rlvaughn, Jan 2, 2020.

  1. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    It is common to hear that two Greek words translated as “love” in the New Testament – agapao and phileo – are two different types of love and that we must discern this when trying to interpret the Bible. Some separate agapao as God’s “divine love” and phileo as “brotherly love.” This sounds good to the inquiring ear. The Greek words for love have some different range of meanings and connotations, but they also have significant semantic overlap (that is, they can be used interchangeably, as synonyms).

    Three examples that illustrate where I would be surprised to find “God’s special love” used. Backsliding Demas had God’s special love for the world (2 Timothy 4:10)? Natural man has God’s special love for darkness (John 3:19)? Sinners have God’s special loved for one another (Luke 6:32)?
    • 2 Timothy 4:10 for Demas hath forsaken me, having loved (agapao/ἀγαπάω) this present world…
    • John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved (agapao/ἀγαπάω) darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    • Luke 6:32 For if ye love (agapao/ἀγαπάω) them which love (agapao/ἀγαπάω) you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love (agapao/ἀγαπάω) those that love (agapao/ἀγαπάω) them.
    Two examples that compare scriptures that say and mean the same thing, while using agapao for love in one and phileo for love in the other.
    • John 3:35 The Father loveth (agapao/ἀγαπάω) the Son...
    • John 5:20 For the Father loveth (phileo/φιλέω) the Son…
    • John 21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved (agapao/ἀγαπάω)…
    • John 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved (phileo/φιλέω)...
    On these two words D. A. Carson writes,
    What are your thoughts?
     
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  2. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    I think so.

    I've heard entire sermons on John 21:15-17 attempting to tease out the differences, and I'm not convinced. Along the lines of Petros/petra, if you will.
     
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  3. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    2 Peter 1:7 uses both. (Well, a derivative of a phileo and agape). Significant overlap, but a distinction.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I disagree with the OP premise, that the words at times convey the same meaning.

    We can be committed to or focus on others, treating them as we desire, whether or not, we have any bond or relationship with them. A nice saying is the love grows in the garden of commitment. I can be both committed to the lost, fulfilling my obligation as an ambassador of Christ, and have a fondness for my siblings in Christ. Jesus was committed to everyone (or almost everyone) but had a fondness for those that believed and followed Him.

    I do not think anyone can cite a verse that says God has a fondness for the lost because they are separated, and have no relationship, whereas I think we could find verses that indicate God has a fondness for His children.
     
  5. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    This is a conundrum. Do I believe D.A. Carson or Van? This will take some hard thinking.
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Who cares who you believe? Did Van ask you to believe him? Oh wait! I get it. You think this is about you.
     
  7. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    It was fairly common in the circles in which I moved in the past to see as settled truth that agapao and phileo have two different and distinct meanings in the New Testament, and to interpret Bible verses accordingly. While they do have a different range of meaning and can mean differently (e.g., Aaron points us to 2 Peter 1:7), this so-called settled difference is not consistent in the Greek language.

    Some scholars even take opposite views on the meanings, both possibly inconsistent with our current rhetoric. In his commentary on The Gospel of John, F. F. Bruce points out how Greek scholars R. C. Trench (Synonyms of the New Testament, 1880) and B. F. Westcott (The Gospel According to St. John, 1881) see the connotations much differently. Trench says that Peter sees the first uses (agapao) as “far too cold.” He thinks Peter wants “a more affectionate word” (phileo). Westcott, on the other hand, thinks Peter sees the first uses (agapao) as “too high” and therefore wants “a more human word” (phileo). F. F Bruce concludes from this that when two distinguished Greek scholars “see the significance of the synonyms so differently, we may wonder if indeed we are intended to see such distinct significance.” I think he concludes rightly.

    Also, both agapao and phileo are used interchangeably by the Greek translators of the Septuagint, to translate the same Hebrew word. For example, Genesis 37:3 (agapao, ἠγάπα) and Genesis 37:4 (phileo, φιλεῖ), both translate the Hebrew word 'aheb (about Jacob loving Joseph more than all his sons). They believed the two words could contain the same meaning.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Our question is did the author of the inspired text mean to convey different aspects of love (sacrificial or affectionate) when He employed the two different Greek words in the Greek text. To support the "they sometimes mean the same" premise by showing that fallible people used both words to translate the same Hebrew word adds little weight. Does the Hebrew context indicate differing meanings of the same Hebrew word? Nope, the same idea (Israel had greater affection for Joseph) is presented in both Genesis 37:3 and 4.
     
    #8 Van, Jan 6, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  9. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    More biblical references to agapao and phileo.

    Agape love can wax cold.
    • Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love (agapao/ἀγαπάω) of many shall wax cold.
    Agape can describe the love of sinful, evil, or wrong things.
    • John 12:43 for they loved (agapao/ἀγαπάω) the praise of men more than the praise of God.
    • 2 Peter 2:15 which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved (agapao/ἀγαπάω) the wages of unrighteousness;
    Agape can love much or love little.
    • Luke 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved (agapao/ἀγαπάω) much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth (agapao/ἀγαπάω) little.
    • 2 Corinthians 12:15 And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love (agapao/ἀγαπάω) you, the less I be loved (agapao/ἀγαπάω).
    Phileo is used to God’s love of man and man’s love of God
    • John 16:27 for the Father himself loveth (phileo/φιλέω) you, because ye have loved (phileo/φιλέω) me, and have believed that I came out from God.
    The synonymous use in the inspired scriptures of agapao/ἀγαπάω and phileo/φιλέω should be convincing to those who will be convinced by the scriptures.

    Used synonymously to describe the love of Christ for his churches.
    • Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved (agapao/ἀγαπάω) thee.
    • Revelation 3:19 As many as I love (phileo/φιλέω), I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent
    Used synonymously to describe the love of Pharisees for the most important seats.
    • Matthew 23:6 and love (phileo/φιλέω) the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
    • Luke 11:43 Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love (agapao/ἀγαπάω) the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.
    Used synonymously to describe the love of Jesus for Lazarus.
    • John 11:3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest (phileo/φιλέω) is sick.
    • John 11:5 Now Jesus loved (agapao/ἀγαπάω) Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.
    • John 11:36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved (phileo/φιλέω) him!
    [Note: Synonyms are words that mean the same thing. One synonym can be used in place of another. However, most synonyms do not always mean exactly the same thing, but have a range of meaning which is determined by the contextual use. One should not expect that agapao/ἀγαπάω) and (phileo/φιλέω) always mean exactly the same thing. The important thing, though, is to realize that looking up and determining the use of these two Greek words in a concordance is not a magic rabbit’s foot that will reveal some secret meaning not found in the context.]
     
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