Mistakes, lies, false witness,and such sins..

Sorry. At first I thought it was an illustration but then I thought you said you had seen it in real life.

I am glad that this has not happened to you.

Some of your illustration has happened to me. There was a man who made false accusations against me on one online site (he was corrected by the staff). But not long afterwards he followed me with these accusations on an entirely different site. He was corrected there as well (by the administration of that site). He kept on and I think they banned him, but I am not sure.

I run into this man every now and then online. He still confesses to be a Christian but he harbors this sense of being wronged. He thinks I (and a few others that have disagreed with his views) have wronged him and he simply cannot let go of the hatred and resentment is consuming him. I think most see how it is affecting his judgment and discernment. He finds fault in others where there is no fault to be found while being oblivious to the cancer in his own spiritual life. He simply cannot see how sin is affecting him and his interactions, partly because he is unconcerned with spiritual matters while intently focused on getting the "facts" of theology correct.

But for my part, I simply forgave the man. He was wrong, but I think he believed he was right. I do not need for him to admit or even realize he was mistaken and had made an error in judgment. The reason I forgive is that I have been forgiven. A gospel that does not give one that power (the power to love, the power to forgive , the heart to obey) is no gospel at all. I forgive because I am free from the bondage of sin.

We are commanded to forgive even our enemies - NOT only those who repent but to forgive even those who would persecute us. That is my belief anyway.

There is no difference between the Christian who lies and the Christian who keeps a record of it. Both are mired in sin, disobedient, and in need of repentance.

My advice to the hypothetical guy is to trust in Christ, obey God, and not allow himself to be mastered by sin.

 

I do not think that it matters. As a Christian I believe we do not keep a "record of wrongs". As a member of online forums I think that we report anything we see as a violation of rules or inappropriate and then our responsibility is done. My responsibility in the issue is to exhibit a Christ-likeness. Sometimes I struggle, but that is all I need to do. It is faith.

Something like that happened to me, yes. But no, I will not provide actual firsthand links as I believe this would move the conversation from the topic of how Christians deal with issues to actual gossip. Gossip is, IMHO, a sin even if the information being spoken about is true.

As I said, I think that the man in question actually believes what he has said to be true (I think that this is why he followed me with the false accusations onto another site). He continues to stalk a few other people as well. But sin has clouded his judgment and he is consumed by hatred and resentment. Others who have been involved have noted the same thing (but he has not been active on the other forum for awhile, so if he is not banned perhaps God is working in his life). I've forgiven him. His struggle with sin in his own life is between him and God - not for you or anyone else to investigate and judge. So we can talk about principles but I will not engage gossip.

I hope you understand and can respect my convictions. I genuinely believe that gossip is a sin and think we have to be very careful about our conversations (I believe we will be held accountable for our words and actions).

 

Exactly. This is what I am talking about.

And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man.

So many times men see the "sins" of others but not the sin in their own lives. But God knows and will discipline those who are His own.

My answer to the OP is that there is no difference between the Christian who lies and the Christian who keeps a record of it. Both are mired in sin, disobedient, and in need of repentance.

We, who are in Christ, can forgive freely because we have been freely forgiven. We are liberated from the bondage that sin has held over us. Those who find themselves unable to forgive, who remain in the shackles and bondage of hatred and sin, do not need an unforgiving Christian demanding he repent but Christ as the fruit betrays the tree.

In my case (the man who was guilty of bearing false witness against me) I think he believes his accusations are true. A couple of members PM'd me asking if there was an underlying mental condition with the man (to the point of the OP), but I do not think so. I would not say his behavior was demonic but I do think his judgment is clouded by sin that he has carefully nursed in his heart. He comes across as a very bitter, hate-filled man.

So what should I do? I believe I am to forgive the man and pray for him. That's all. Not expose the guy or demand he repent publically. But forgive and move on.

 

Over time I have learned two things about many of the insults tossed my way. First, they are often deserved. Second, they really do not matter. When we take an eternal outlook then what matters is uplifting one another, not tearing one another down.

It is odd. The older I get the less patient I am (I thought it would be the opposite), but countering this is the idea that the less important little disagreements seem. It balances out, I guess.

I'm a fair and balanced kinda guy.

 

The bottom line is this is just an exercise in "what if's" (a "Strawman thread") . I do not want anyone to draw the wrong conclusions.

@Iconoclast confirmed his was but an illustration (that it never really happened). I have no reason to suspect he is lying.

My experience with the lost "brother" was on another forum.

I don't want people to draw unwarranted conclusions.

 

If it is something you experienced in real life then I am sorry that you experienced it at the hands of professing Christians (even if Mormon). I know how you feel because I did experience something similar by a professing Christian (not Mormon but Reformed Baptist....which I admit colored my perception of the group).

As I said, I think that the man in question actually believes his assumptions to be true, but I think sin has clouded his judgment as it is obvious (to anyone who has conversed with him) that he is consumed by hatred and resentment. I've forgiven him. His struggle with sin in his own life is between him and God. I am not the only person who has observed that he comes off as a bitter, hate-filled man. I do not know why he is unaware of his sin, or why he is so obsessed with evil. But I think that sin is often like an addiction. When people give sin a foothold it takes so much of them without their knowledge.

Anyway, I am sorry that you experienced whatever you experienced. If it helps, I forgave the man who spoke falsely about me and just left him to God. What he does is between him and God (it really is not my business and I do not care except insofar as I may help him move away from sin).

Perhaps you could consider that Mormonism is not Christianity (we do not expect the world to behave as if they are saved because they are not). Personally I doubt the man who falsely accused me is a Christian (regardless of his profession because of his actions... he is known to be a hate-filled man on more than one site). But that is even more reason for me to treat him in love.

 

There are a couple of things I think that can be said, especially regarding religious and political forums (they tend to be the worst.....these things don't happen on my literature forum).

First, very often the one with the complaint is making assumptions against another person that are usually false. He or she cannot prove the charge that they would levy against the other person(s) but they have convinced themselves that their assumptions are true and the only possible conclusion because they need to be a victim of something or someone.

Second, most of the time the one complaining is doing so because he or she is wearing their feelings on their sleeves and should not be engaging people in a debate/ discussion board to begin with.

It is unfortunate that online debate forums often lack the charity afforded other types of debates. I think sometimes people wander into these types of forums unprepared to be questioned about their views, unable to defend their beliefs, and unaware of opposing positions. Add to this an individual that is immature and not well versed in Christian doctrine and you have a powder keg of hurt feelings that will explode upon the slightest offensive spark. A weak mind and a strongly opinioned board do not mix very well.

 

I do not think you can simply claim Proverbs (the LDS guy probably thinks the same of you).

I think the best course of action is to stand in and for Christ.

I can rightfully say thay I do not falsely accuse others, I do not harbor grudges, I have not lied on any forum to which I belong, I have not stalked anyone. That is my responsibility - my actions.

Do you see what I mean?

I have not done those things. I do not answer for other people (not for the Mormon you say wronged you, not for the man who falsely accused me). Those who do those things, if against me, I forgive. What is between them and God is their business, not mine.

I think you should report the LDS guy to the administration of the board you were speaking of. They can see he only addressed you. They can see what was falsely said (if truely false and not a misunderstanding). Turn it over to them for the forum (for the other members) and move on.

We are not responsible for the sins or perceived sins of other people. All we are responsible to do is forgive as we have been forgiven and be Christ to the world.

 

@Iconoclast,

Please consider this concerning your disagreement with the LDS member on the other forum:

Sin is sin. There is no difference between the person who lies and the person who keeps a record of it. Both are mired in sin, disobedient, and in need of repentance.

By nature the LDS member is in a state of sin - mastered by sin. But you, being a Christian, are not mastered by sin.

Do you see what I am getting at? The Mormon sins and is mastered by sin. If you do not forgive him, if you "keep a record of wrongs", then you slander the gospel itself because you are not mastered by sin.

Does that make sense?

We, as Christians, cannot be openly sinful while pointing out the so s of the world. We have to obey. We are called to be a holy people.

 

Sorry. I thought you were talking about a Mormon on another forum. I must have misread somewhere.

The point, however, is the same.

Report the guy on the other forum and let the administration handle things. They can see histories. Let them know the guy is only addressing you (that may not be against the rules but it is strange). But forgive the guy and move on. You cannot address the splinter in that guy's eye if you have a log in yours.

 

I can't say. I guess it depends on the discussion.

I would not disagree with a Mormon if they were correct or agree with a Christian if he was incorrect. We have to be honest people (truth matters).

What doctrine were you debating with a Mormon to begin with?

Also, how did the other guy (the one who only posts to you) end up agreeing with the Mormon if he only posts to you?

A good rule of thumb is to discuss theology only with Christians and evangelize the lost. That may save you some hurt feelings in the future should the situation again arise.

 

I do not want folks to get the wrong idea.

Looking at our posts and considering our past I think I probably should emphasize that the issue @Iconoclast is having is not with me. I have never posted only to him, followed him, lied about him or held LDS doctrine. Last year we were on another forum (Christian Board) but I had been active months before encountering him on a thread.

For months @Iconoclast and I have not interacted in other forums at all. (Just want to prevent rumors).

I do not know @Iconoclast personally but in the context of online discussions we do not like each other. That is one reason I am replying to him. I do not like him but I do love him and will do my best to show him how to interact with people you may not like. Our personal likes and dislikes do not matter.

I just want to be clear given our history.

I believe we need to be open and honest. As such, @Iconoclast, I recommend that you reach out to this guy on the other forum. If you let this issue wait a week then it will start to fester and you risk sin and hate entering your heart. A good principle is not to let the sun go down on these things. Take care if these things quickly. If not a week can quickly become a month (and by then sin could have found root). Be killing sin or sin will be killing you.

But take care of the issue on the other forum. Since the guy is not here we risk a movement towards gossip and rumors.