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To Be or Not To Be: That is the question of James 2:5

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Reformed1689, Dec 26, 2019.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The ESV does not put "to be" in italics, but the NKJV does, and the NASB does. The KJV does not insert "to be." Italics lets the reader know "to be" is not in the inspired text.
     
    #21 Van, Jan 14, 2020
  2. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, you aren't dealing with the actual question. Why do all Greek scholars translate it "to be rich" if that is not what it MEANS?
     
    #22 Reformed1689, Jan 14, 2020
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Again, a wasted post. Does anyone believe "all Greek scholars translate the verse "to be rich" when the Greek scholars of the KJV did not?
     
    #23 Van, Jan 14, 2020
  4. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Fine, all Greek scholars except KJV. I was referring to modern. So again, are you saying every modern Greek Scholar doesn't know what they are talking about?

    Of course, I have already shown that the semantic domain includes "to be rich" as the plausible definition.
     
    #24 Reformed1689, Jan 14, 2020
  5. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    James 2:5 in the 1560 Geneva Bible

    Hearken my beloved brethren, hath not God chosen the poor of this world, that they should be rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he promised to them that love him?

    James 2:5 in Bishops' Bible

    Hearken, my dear beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world, that they might be rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom, which he promised to them that love him?
     
    #25 Logos1560, Jan 15, 2020
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    van is not addressing this per the greek, as he tends to always address from the point of view of his "good Theology", and our Bogus one!
     
    #26 Yeshua1, Jan 15, 2020
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    the Greek scholars that agree with van are expert, those who do not aren't per him!
     
    #27 Yeshua1, Jan 15, 2020
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Which rendering do you prefer?
     
    #28 Yeshua1, Jan 15, 2020
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    If your view is that "to be" was required, as opposed to "yet" or "as" by the Greek, it is nonsense.
     
    #29 Van, Jan 15, 2020
  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Every Greek scholar today disagrees with you. What makes you right and them wrong?
     
    #30 Reformed1689, Jan 15, 2020
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    His theology, as they hold to "bogus Theology"
     
    #31 Yeshua1, Jan 15, 2020
  12. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Just playing out the conclusion of one poster. If the poor are chosen because they are rich in faith....then they were also chosen because they were already heirs to the Kingdom. If we do not allow "to be" then the poor were already heirs before they were elected. If they were saved before elected, then what are they elected into? How does one possess salvation before actually being saved?

    πλουσίους ἐν πίστει καὶ κληρονόμους τῆς βασιλείας

    "Rich in faith and heirs of the Kingdom"

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

    [/b][/b]
     
    #32 McCree79, Jan 15, 2020
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  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Every Greek scholar?
     
    #33 Van, Jan 15, 2020
  14. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Fine, the vast majority seeing as how every major English translation, except the KJV, has that rendering. Even English translations before the KJV have that rendering as has been shown to you.
     
    #34 Reformed1689, Jan 15, 2020
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Not the issue. The "to be" is added to the text, not because of Greek grammar, so the "scholar" support is non existent. A word or phrase is not needed to be added, as demonstrated by the KJV. The addition alters the message, corrupting the text. "Yet" OTOH makes the message clear.
     
    #35 Van, Jan 15, 2020
  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Yet doesn't make it more clear. That makes it more clear according to your theology. Wrong theology.
     
    #36 Reformed1689, Jan 15, 2020
  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Furthermore, why add yet if not add to be? You have a double standard Van. Wake up.
     
    #37 Reformed1689, Jan 15, 2020
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another "taint so" post. How does James 2:5 read in YLT? Weymouth New Testament? Websters Bible Translation? Darby Bible Translation? Douay - Rheims Bible? American King James Version? KJ2000 Bible? Aramaic Bible in Plain English? Contemporary English Version?

    Altering the text to agree with doctrine is without merit, "yet" does not alter the meaning, it agrees with the actual text as found in 10 or so versions. "To be" reverses the meaning to conform to an interpretation of another scripture, which of course is errant.
     
    #38 Van, Jan 15, 2020
  19. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    In your (wrong) OPINION
     
    #39 Reformed1689, Jan 15, 2020
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    According to some, it is not wrong to reverse the meaning of bible text. Go figure
     
    #40 Van, Jan 16, 2020
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