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Featured The Imaginary Covenant of Grace

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Sai, May 24, 2020.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you more into NCT then?
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    For direction and leading, not for salvation!
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God Himself stated that the Mosaic Law was covenant between Him and national israel!
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All sinners saved was due to them placing trust and belief in the promised Messiah to come, as all of the feasts, sacrificices, OT books etc pointed towards Him!
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Cannot be saved/born again unless one has the promised Holy Spirit, and that was ln Pentacost!
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, as he had to hear of the messiah and receive the Holy Spirit for that to happen!
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    NPP is basically new old bad news, as it goes back to critical scholars who denied inspiration of Holy Spirit, and had Paul and Jesus arguing as to what salvation meant!
     
  8. Noah Hirsch

    Noah Hirsch Active Member

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    That is not what people who speak about the Covenant of Grace believe. The Covenant of Grace is understood to be an overarching covenant that expands throughout redemption history. Whoever is saved from the Fall to the end has a saving interest in the Covenant of Grace.
     
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  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Any and all ever saved came under the CoG!
     
  10. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Jeremiah 31:31 is a New Covenant made with Israel. It is not a new covenant of grace over and against an old covenant of works. Don’t get it twisted friends


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Neither is it a covenant of grace and faith.

    It is the covenant of the New Kingdom. The one neither Abraham nor the OT house of Jacob got. A kingdom of grace in sight of the Lamb, and God on the throne.
     
  12. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    A Covenant is a contract. It requires written documentation. There was a Covenant documented by Moses made with Adam before the fall - the Edenic Covenant.

    After the fall Moses documented the Covenant with Adam with provisions concerning life outside of the Garden of Eden.

    Moses also documents the Covenant made with Noah with its provisions for life after the flood.

    Moses also documented the Covenant made with Abraham and its provisions. Moses documents the Land Covenant and its provisions.

    Moses who was not the author of the book of Genesis as he was not an eye witness but merely edited the existing documents into Genesis, was an eye witness to the Law Covenant and he documented its 613 provisions.

    The Davidic Covenant is documented in scripture along with its provisions.

    And the New Covenant was documented likewise with its provisions.

    3 of these documented contracts or covenants were made with man in general while 5 are made with the nation of Israel. Including the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31 made between God and Israel to which we are taught by Paul that the Gentiles have been made overtakers I mean partakes in the spiritual blessings of Israel.

    There is no need for a contract between God and man for salvation by grace because scripture clearly points it out that men are saved by grace they faith apart from laws.
     
  13. Mikey

    Mikey Active Member

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    you believe that Moses used existing writings/narritives and compiled them into a single book?
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Holy Spirit was there, could He not have revealed what happened to Moses?
     
  15. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Only the Bible never actually says that. Under the law of Moses, salvation was by faith and works, as often stated in scripture.

    Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
    Gal 3:12 And the law is NOT of faith: but, The man that DOETH them shall live in them.

    Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which DOETH those things shall live by them.

    And indeed:
    Eze 18:9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.


    Psa 106:30 Then stood up Phinehas, and executed judgment: and so the plague was stayed.
    Psa 106:31 And that was counted unto him for righteousness unto all generations for evermore.

    Etc. Etc. Etc.

    However, in the church age of grace, the works of the law are no more accepted of God as a basis of justification.

    Rom 3:21 BUT NOW [i.e. not before] the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets [the law prophesied and typified salvation by grace, but it did not offer salvation by grace];

    This is partly due to the fact that New Testament salvation includes elements (like regeneration, adoption, etc) which were not part of salvation under Moses' law, and which elements, now bundled-up with salvation, can never be attained by the works of the law. In the tribulation, and in the millennial kingdom, salvation will once again be obtained as it was under the law of Moses.

    I realize this is highly contentious, and it took me a while to digest. Hopefully we can discuss it with scriptures over time.

    To be clear, your question is very pertinent and difficult to answer for those who ascribe to the "salvation was always by grace through faith" creed yet also distinguish between a covenant of the law and then a covenant of grace. So what I'm saying is that you are at least trying to be internally consistent.
     
    #75 George Antonios, May 29, 2020
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No one under the Mosaic law was ever justified by keeping that Law, as they were "saved" by placing trust and faith in the promised messiah to come!
     
  17. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    It would be helpful if you would deal with the scriptures that were provided and that you quote scriptures in turn to support your claim.
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul stated that NONE shall ever be justified before God by what they do, and that counts for all since Adam!
     
  19. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    I quoted Paul's words in my original post.
    The "that counts for all since Adam" part is what you added. Paul specifically countered that when he said that the law of Moses was not of faith but of works.
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    yes, as in n one have ever or will ever be justified before God bu the Law, or human works!
     
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