Featured Well Said - Arminians listen-up!

Even Mormons preach don't drink, don't steal, and don't murder. And that is one of the problems - one shouldn't teach doctrine. One should teach scripture.

Yes.

41 years

If you have a point, make it. Stop playing with your food.

Can you name the philosopher I'm following? I can guess at the philosophers you are following. Are they Plotinus and Plato?

The Bible - especially the Old Testament - is meditation literature. One should never stop reading and learning from it.

Proof? Examples? Or is simply disagreeing with you considered hostility?

You may not realize it but you are being condescending.

Report me then. Otherwise you are just making up ad hominem.

"Well Said - Arminians listen-up!"

That's how Wesley starts out. Who's trying to pick a fight here? Me? Really? Explain your reasoning on that?

Then Wesley quotes Charles saying that if I don't believe what he believes I'm going to hell? Really? I'm the one not acting graciously? Explain your reasoning about that.

Defending myself from someone who underhandedly claims that I am going to hell is beating someone into submission? Can you explain your reasoning? Wesley throws a hand grenade over his shoulder at the evil "Arminians" ignoring all the responding "Arminians" and it's the "Arminians" who are not treating him like a person?

Did you think about this before you wrote it?

What was polite about Wesley telling me I was going to hell?

What is polite about your condescension?

My remarks are designed to clearly demonstrate the errors of others. I am as blatant and straight forward in person as I am online. I'm not perfect and sometimes I misspeak. If you have a specific complaint against me, you should point it out at the time I make it instead of hiding behind vagueness.

Holding grudges is not good.

I will not apologize for not being polite. I will apologize if I am unnecessarily rude.

No cosmic lottery here.

And remember, I went through Luke and Acts for you and you ignored it.

No cosmic lottery here.

No cosmic lottery here.

And none of them mention a cosmic lottery.

One last mention - all of the passages start with a positive response from the people. If you remember, I discussed this with you before.

John Calvin believes in the fake-temptation of Jesus.

Thank you.

 

One should teach both, if they are one of God's teachers:

"For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;" ( 1 Timothy 1:10 ).
" If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;" ( 1 Timothy 6:3 )
" For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;" ( 2 Timothy 4:3 ).
" But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:" ( Titus 2:1 ).
" Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers." ( Titus 1:9 ).

Sound doctrine is not only important, but should be taught from the Scriptures.

41 years and you still post outrageous things like the cartoon in #13?
Why?

Did you?
Do you not know in advance how it will be received by some, and that someone might find it offensive?
To me, it is offensive.

Also, this makes about the 3rd time I've seen you do this.
I'm beginning to get the idea that you do it just to see if you can get a rise out of people...
Which believers should not do, should they?

Granted, I've done similar things in the past, but I'd like to not do them anymore, because I know such things are offensive.
If I may ask, did you have any second thoughts about posting it?
Did this even enter your mind at any time?

" Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." ( Matthew 7:12 ).

I would hope that it did, and I think it would be wise for all of us to remember this.

The point was made, I'm sorry that you do not see it.
Also, you may not realize it, but it seems to me that you're being condescending, Marty.

Did that ever occur to you?

No.
I have no use for philosophy, as the Lord calls it "vain" ( Colossians 2:8 ).

I trust His words and His words alone ( Proverbs 3:5-6 ).

 

You're right, I don't realize it, since that wasn't my intention.

But I once believed as you appear to, and my studies in the Scriptures changed my mind.
I figure if all it took was constant study to gradually change my way of thinking, then I encourage everyone to do as I did... so that their thinking will change as well.

For example, I started out after I first believed on Christ in 1978 as an "Arminian", and became a "Calvinist" over years and years... and I see the Bible stating that there is a such thing as "the transforming of the mind", and He also tells believers that they are dull of hearing in Hebrews.

So, I see that the natural antidote for us as believers being dull of hearing is for all of Christ's sheep to study His word constantly, as Paul told Timothy to do ( 2 Timothy 2:15 ).

All of the passages end with God having been the direct cause ( Acts of the Apostles 2:39, Acts of the Apostles 2:47, Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ) for that response.
That's why I underlined and bold-texted the parts that show this, as well as quoting the NLT for comparison.

Do you not see the significance in the parts I've highlighted?

I wouldn't know.

I don't follow him, nor do I own any books on "Reformed theology".
I've only ever read the chapter in his "institutes" on Predestination and that was after I saw it in the Scriptures from Romans 8:29-30 and Ephesians 1:4-5.


With that said, this will be my last reply in this thread.

I wish you well, sir, and from here on out I will make every effort to keep from replying to your comments, since we differ so much in the way that we see the words on the page.
That difference causes so much friction that I think it's probably best that we ignore each other.


May God bless you greatly, both in your daily life and in your studies of His word.

 

Read the chapter - Paul is talking about the law of the Old Testament .

Talking about the teachings of Jesus which are recorded in the Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Acts which are part of Scripture.

2 Timothy 4:3 NLT
For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.

A better translation for you so that you may understand that you. Instead of reading the Bible, people will seek out those who will tell them what they want to hear.

Why do you consistently quote half verses?

At this point, I realize that you may have decided to use an archaic definition for doctrine. Please read the Webster's Dictionary definition for doctrine.

Definition of DOCTRINE

The primary definition is "a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief". The synonym is DOGMA and the example is Catholic Doctrine.

The archaic definition is TEACHING and INSTRUCTION.

Now I'm thinking that you may be using the archaic version. To this I would say, "Of course I believe in teaching and instruction. I think children should be taught to count to ten."

Unfortunately, you scattershot like you usually do instead of carefully selecting a passage that demonstrates what you believe. So, as a result, I'm not sure whether you are using the correct definition.

Select the best verse or sequential verses which support what you believe. Here is the portion of the Bible I am referring to.

Mark 7:6-13 NLT
Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,

‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
[7] Their worship is a farce,
for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’

[8] For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.” [9] Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition. [10] For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ [11] But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ [12] In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. [13] And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.”

If someone wants to teach money management, marriage counseling, history, science, etc.- that is fine. However, attributing one's own counsel to be God's counsel is wrong unless one is God's prophet.

I use what works. And that comic strip works. It very states the Calvinist interpretation of the passage and then shows why the Calvinist interpretation is wrong.

The truth hurts and that is why Calvinists hate it. I have started using it on the forum every time a Calvinist mentions Romans 9 as if their interpretation is the best one.

And yes, for you it seems outrageous. For me, reading the Bible through the lens of classical theism is outrageous. For me, condemning those who do not believe in Greek Philosophy is outrageous.

If I didn't see it, the point wasn't made unless you weren't really speaking to me.

But you were playing with your food. You just stated that your point was with another audience. You were playing around and not trying to explain your point to me.

You say that, but your interpretation of scripture is through the lens of Plato.

That will only work if you take off your Platonic blinders.

No. That's not even close to what the passages say.

I know. You need to take off your Platonic blinders. You're looking at what you want the Bible to say to you - not what it is actually saying.

You won't be able to move away from Calvinism if you haven't converted to Calvinism yet.

You don't understand your own theology. You need to understand your theology and where it actually came from. The knowledge will help you take off your Platonic blinders.

You had a question about predestination and you unknowingly went to an unrepentant murderer for answers. Even from the grave, he led you astray. I feel sorry for you.

 

You want to ignore the truth. I'm still addressing you. Your ignore list does not stop me from addressing you and your false theology.
MB

 

Help me out here, what part is it where he turns the gun?

 

I agree with your points but I am a non-Calvinist because of the KJB and I won't give it up either, so help me God.

 

I'm not against people using the KJB. I think people should read it with their eyes wide open and understand that they need to be careful with such things as false friends. False friends are English phrases and words which are similar to the current English but meant something different in the 16th century. There are a few translational problems in my opinion but nothing that is truly problematic.

I generally attack KVJO because many of them attack me. I believe the best defense is a good offense. However, I attack anyone who attacks me. John of Japan is not KJVO and neither is MB but both have attacked what they have considered to be the "wrong" translation. Now I could ignore them, but I do so at risk of being formally declared a heretic.

When I first came to this forum, my first post announced that I had started reading the Bible in the NLT. No one mentioned anything to me then but since then numerous people have decided that they would make it their lifelong goal to attack it.

Basically, if someone wants to declare what I'm reading to be heretical writing then I feel the need to defend myself. I will admit that my defense tends to be more confrontational and sometimes sarcastic but that is my style and not meant to be personal.

I don't think I've ever started an anti-Calvinist thread. I haven't started an anti-KJVO thread either. I have started several anti-Islam threads. I believe that the major problems Christianity faces are Islam, hedonism, greed, apathy, atheism, universalism, etc. - not Calvinism or which Bible translation people are using.

In fact, I didn't know that people were still believing in Calvinism until I came to this forum. It was that crazy thing the Presbyterians believed. I had a Presbyterian teacher and when she mentioned what she believed, I laughed and thought she was joking.

For me, I read the Bible and what was more important to me was how God wanted me to behave and what behaviors Jesus consider to be the most important. I never read the Bible and thought it was about the metaphysics of God and Salvation. I never worried about the end-times. I worried about my relationship to Jesus, how to please God, and what I should do in life. This idea of worrying about God's metaphysics or the signs of the end-times never concerned me. I put faith my faith trust in Jesus and he'll take care of the things over which I have no control.

 

I use other translations in trying to figure out where, who ever I'm posting to, is coming from and where they get there information. I do not worship the KJV but I do worship what it teaches and it is my final authority. The KJV is the most accurate version of the Bible. Everything else comes from the Alexandrian text which is not accurate.
MB