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Featured Why are there so many even Christians afraid of Judgment Day?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Hobie, May 30, 2020.

  1. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Every word we speak is written down...

    Matthew 12:36
    But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

    Every secret we keep is known and will be judged...

    Romans 2:16
    In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

    I hadn't notice the completeness of this verse before...

    Jude 14-15
    14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
    15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

    As to what awaits, those saints who overcome as Christ overcame, may walk boldly...

    1 John 4:17
    Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
     
    #21 Hobie, Jun 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
  2. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    I agree.

    However, you are avoiding answering my question.
    Please provide the Biblical reference to the judgement day when Christians will be judged and the eternal result of their judgement.

    Do you agree with this statement or do you have an alternative belief?
    "The judgment seat of Christ does not determine salvation; that was determined by Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf (1 John 2:2) and our faith in Him (John 3:16). All of our sins are forgiven, and we will never be condemned for them (Romans 8:1)."
    Excerpt from: What is the Judgment Seat of Christ / Bema Seat of Christ? | GotQuestions.org
     
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  3. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    I did but I guess you missed it again.. so lets go to a explanation on this...
     
  4. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Because they don't trust the Lord ( Proverbs 3:5-6 ) and value His words.

    Believers have been known to use them as well, although not as much. ;)
     
  5. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    I have no intention of watching the video. If, as you say you have shared the scripture supporting your position concerning the judgement of Christians and I missed it, simply share the post again for me. Thanks for your helpful reply to my request.
     
  6. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Hobie,

    The way I'm reading his comments, Wesley asked you when Christians...
    That's God's dear children who He sent His Son to atone for,
    will be judged, and that judgment resulting in eternal consequences for them.

    He then asked you:
     
  7. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Not every word that God's children speak will be written down to be judged, Hobie.
    Only the words of those who are not saved will be written in the books and the spiritually and physically dead will be judged out of those books:

    " And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
    ( Revelation 20:11-15 )

    God is also a God of the living ( Matthew 22:32, Mark 12:27 ), not the "dead", spiritually speaking.
    Christ's sheep ( the living ) have their sins forgiven...
    All their trespasses ( Colossians 2:13-14 ).

    God will not remember any of those sins on Judgment Day ( Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 3:36, John 5:24, Hebrews 8:12 ).
    Those sins are removed from His sight as far as east is from west ( Psalms 103:12 ).

    Therefore, true believers, who are part of the first resurrection ( Revelation 20:4-6 ), are set apart on Christ's right hand at that time ( Matthew 25:31-46 ) and are alive to God both spiritually and physically ( Luke 20:38 ), will have nothing to be afraid of at the Judgement.


    Their sins will not even be brought up...
    There is no condemnation for them that are in Christ Jesus ( Romans 8:1 ).

    Only their good works will be remembered;
    The good works that they were created in Christ Jesus to do ( Ephesians 2:10 ).
     
    #27 Dave G, Jul 3, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  8. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Believers don't willfully reject God's words, Hobie...

    They "hear" them ( John 8:47 ) because they have "ears to hear" ( Matthew 11:15 ) and because it has been given to them to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven ( Matthew 13:10-11 ).
    They have been given the Spirit, so that they might know the things that were given to them by God ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16 ) and He is their Teacher ( 1 John 2:20-27).

    Christ's sheep follow Him ( John 10:27 ), and they will not follow strangers ( John 10:1-5 ).

    They also, through the power of the Spirit, do mortify ( or "put to death" ) the deeds of the body ( Romans 8:5-14 ) and they eventually learn to walk in the Spirit, so that they will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh ( Galatians 5:16 ).
    They do not willfully continue in sin and they read and heed Romans 6.

    So, it is clear to me that since they have their sins forgiven, they have the indwelling Spirit and their hearts have been changed, not only will they continue in the faith, they will triumph over sin and death through Christ Jesus.



    May God bless you in your continued studies of His precious word.
     
  9. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    Hobie, if you don't address my questions in a timely manner, you will be added to my ignore list in such a manner.
     
  10. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Put me on ignore as I am not here to win any debate but to share truth. But lets try this one more time as we went through this cycle before as you clearly saw..
    Scripture is clear on this...

    2 Corinthians 5:10 King James Version (KJV)
    10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    Ecclesiastes 12:14 King James Version (KJV)
    14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

    Christ speaks of it...

    Matthew 10:15 King James Version (KJV)
    15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

    Matthew 11:22 King James Version (KJV)
    But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

    Matthew 12:36-37 King James Version (KJV)
    36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
    37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned......(And many more..)

    We see who the accuser is...

    Revelation 12:10 King James Version (KJV)
    10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

    But those who turn their lives over to Christ, can have boldness on that day...

    1 John 4:17 King James Version (KJV)
    17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

    So I hope you saw it this time...
    But lets go over more..
     
    #30 Hobie, Jul 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  11. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    We see that Christ will come and reward every man according to his works:

    Matthew 16:27
    For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    Revelation 22:12
    And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

    Now there comes the implementation of the punishment (this is the second death) which we see after the Millennium of the 1000 years...

    Revelation 20:11-15
    11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    And we see the corresponding verses in Daniel:

    Daniel 7:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
    9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
    10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
    11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

    So at the close of the thousand years, Christ again returns to the earth with the New Jerusalem and accompanied by the redeemed and with angels. So now we see the resurrection of damnation of the wicked. As there are two resurrections at the end of time:

    Acts 24:15
    And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

    John 5:29
    And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    And the first resurrection is of the saints not the wicked as the verses make clear. The wicked are not brought back up till the thousand years are finished.:

    Revelation 20:5-6
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    The wicked live again at the resurrection of damnation and are going to suffer the second death which is damnation in the lake of fire:

    Revelation 21:8
    But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
     
    #31 Hobie, Jul 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  12. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    The awards ceremony for God's children takes place at the Judgement Seat of Christ.

    [Rom 14:10 KJV] 10 "... for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."

    Study Guide for Romans 14 by David Guzik
    ii. The judgment seat of Christ: “This is the bema seat, equivalent to the judge’s seat in the Olympic Games. After each game, the winners came before the judge’s seat to receive crowns for first, second, and third places. Likewise, the Christian’s works will be tested by fire, and he’ll be rewarded for those which remain... The judgment seat of Christ is only concerned with a Christian’s rewards and position in the kingdom, not with his salvation.” (Smith)

    Hopefully we are in agreement.

    I appreciate your response.
     
  13. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Christ is working in the Heavenly Sanctuary as our advocate before the Father for those who truly believe and know Him, not just those who claim to believe:

    1 John 2:1-3
    1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

    He will finish His work as our mediator then come and separate the true believers who know Him from the wicked:

    Matthew 25:32-34
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
     
  14. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    What type of Christians do you meet that say these things ? " yay I want to sin more saved than I did unsaved . Where's the carnival of sin whoop !! Now I'm a child of God , give me some sinning I need to lap it up . Bring me my licence it's legal now whoop ! .' Others say Jesus died on the cross so I can sin " what ? They literally say this? if this is what you hear you miss the point . We are saved by Grace because that's the only way . Your good deeds do not save you . You should be relived that you cannot lose salvation , because if you could you would .
     
    #34 Barry Johnson, Jul 12, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
  15. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Could I ask .How does a person become sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption? (Ephesians ) Because how your using those proof texts will be affected by how you believe we become a Christian . The bible isn't fighting with itself . If it says nothing can separate us , that we have eternal life , not destined for wrath , predestined to glorification, sealed until we mess up , no it's sealed until the day of redemption. Then we look from the clear passages to the others .
     
    #35 Barry Johnson, Jul 12, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
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  16. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    There are the ' books ' in heaven . Then there is the ' book ' also . The only factor will be in order to go to heaven will be those that have their names written in the book . The books( plural ) will not determine the destination . Only the ' book ' singular .
    12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
    Believers will be in the book . Unbelievers will not . That's it simple .
     
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  17. Oseas3

    Oseas3 Member

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    Yes, but we cannot forget that now, in the Day of Judgment, the Lord's Day, JESUS will sit on His throne, the Judgment Seat of Christ, but not as an advocate, but as a Judge. Then will fulfil LITERALLY 2Thessalonians 1:v.7-12(whoso readeth, let him understand)

    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

    9 Who shall be PUNISHED with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his Power;

    10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that Day. -the Lord's Day, this arrived -

    11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

    12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Matt.25:v.31-34 and 41and 46
    31 When the Son of man shall come in His Glory, and all the holy messengers with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory: -->the Throne of Judgment, the Judgment Seat of Christ<--


    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations (Israel included): and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the Devil and his messengers: ~~> Ministers of Satan - 2Corinthians 11:v.13-15<~~
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting PUNISHMENT: but the righteous into LIFE ETERNAL.
     
  18. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Christians today are not afraid. They are confused, because false teaching has crept in, which changes the truth of God's Word into a lie. The church is not judged at any of the Judgments in the book of Revelation. After the 6th seal, the church is no longer part of the narrative. They have been judged, and John is only writing about the view of those who are alive after the 6th seal. Those currently dead in sheol stay dead during the rest of the tribulation and remain in sheol for the next 1000 years. Then at the GWT they are judged.

    The resurrection in Revelation 20 is only for those killed on earth between the 7th seal, and the battle of Armageddon. This time of tribulation is the harvest and judgment of living humans, not dead humans, nor the church. All those living humans are killed physically. Any prophecy or teachings of Jesus in the Gospels deal with this time and these living humans. They have nothing whatsoever to do with the body of Christ, the church.

    The problem is the confusion of when the rapture happens, and this period when Jesus Christ the Lamb once again has a ministry on the earth. This ministry is not about the church. It is about those living on earth after the church is taking out. The church has endured for 1990 years. God says the ministry of the church is over. From Revelation 7, until the New Jerusalem, the church is with God in the temple of God, Paradise. When current reality is dissolved in fire, the temple of God becomes the New Jerusalem, the city of God. That is the dwelling place of all those whose names are in the Lamb's book of life.

    Those humans who dwell with Christ and reign on earth, will live on the new earth. They will watch New Jerusalem descend and take a position on the earth. Why this is confusing is inescusable. The church was never the sheep and wheat. Neither were there sheep, goats, wheat, nor tares in the 1st century. All this harvest, that Jesus and the prophets mentioned, only applies to the time on earth after the church is taken out. Scrambling it all up into one messy omelette is confusing. Rightly dividing the Word of God is the key.
     
  19. Oseas3

    Oseas3 Member

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    I think that that statement must be studied more accurately. The Jugment of Christians, or Judgment of the Church as a whole, will be in accord of their works as were exemplified in the chapter 2 and 3 of Revelation, inclusive the angels of the Churches (Pastors, or Bishops, or Evangelists, or Ministers), even they will be Judged now through the Judgment Seat of Christbecause have permitted bad and demonic works (idolatries, prostitutions, adulteries, blasphemy), would occur within the churches in their ministries.

    Speaking of idolatry, the commercial manufacture of cross of wooden, iron, silver, gold, bronze, hanging on the walls, or on people's necks, or in tombs, and so on, everything this is idolatry and also a curse. Cross is CURSE. The idolaters put a cross on their neck, that means they are all under the curse, the curse of the cross.


    These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; - And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. Rev. 2:v.19 & 23 and Romans 2:v.16
     
  20. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    No, we already saw that even those who say they are Christians may find they are judge to damnation.

    Matthew 7:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Christ makes clear that unless you turn from iniquity, and truly know Him, you will have no part of His kingdom and be numbered amoung the wicked:

    Matthew 13:41 King James Version (KJV)
    The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

    Luke 17:26-27 King James Version (KJV)
    26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
    27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
     
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