1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Monergism/Synergism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Jul 19, 2020.

  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,485
    Likes Received:
    3,567
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It's history, Yeshua1.

    James Arminius was a Calvinistic professor who studied under Beza.

    He expressed what would become Arminianism and a debate followed. His case was heard and a conclusion made on May 30, 1608. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court concluded that Arminius' position mostly relating to the subtle details of doctrine of predestination, were of minor importance and could co-exist... [and] enjoined both gentlemen to tolerate one another lovingly".

    So in 1608 his view was within orthodox Calvinism. But the issue continued to divide Calvinism. James Arminius died in 1609. His views, at the time of his death, remained within orthodox Calvinism. But in 1610 his followers (Remonstrants) issued the Five Articles. Those following his teachings remained within the Dutch Reformed Church until the controversy was settled in May 1619. On July 5 1619 the Arminian ministers were ordered not to preach Arminianism.

    So from 1581 to 1619 the teachings of James Arminius was considered to be within orthodox Calvinism. From 1610 to 1619 the Articles (a more developed Arminianism) was debated but was a part of Calvinism. From 1619 forward it was not.

    You need to read better Calvinist theologians, ones who have also studied history. I recommend Wayne Grudem. His systematic theology is very approachable and he knows history as well. You could also consider the late R.C. Sproul and J.I. Packer (although Packer was an Anglican,priest and theologian and if I recall from your comments about Wright you are not fond of Anglican priests). You could also reference John MacArthur (who is a Calvinist, although not a theologian per se) and John Piper (my favorite Calvinist).

    In fact, I do not know of a Calvinist theologian who is unaware of this history. Most theologians have had to at least study Christian history (to include the Dutch Reformed) in seminary if not during their undergraduate education.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,485
    Likes Received:
    3,567
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Barry, you are fairly new here so I'll let you in on a little secret (most here can confirm). When you ask Yeshua1 for Scripture you'll end up with something along the lines of "Scripture be damned, this is what I believe". You will not get a verse or passage to examine. You will only get a statement of his belief....again, and again, and again.

    Learn to live with that and you two will get along fine (just know when to pull the zip cord...like I'm doing now).
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Monergism

    A Simple Explanation of Monergism by John Hendryx
    Monergism simply means that it is God who gives ears to hear and eyes to see. It is God alone who gives illumination and understanding of His word that we might believe; It is God who raises us from the dead, who circumcises the heart; unplugs our ears; It is God alone who can give us a new sense that we may, at last, have the moral capacity to behold His beauty and unsurpassed excellency. "In theology, [monergism is] the doctrine that the Holy Spirit is the only efficient agent in regeneration [the new birth] - that the human will possesses no inclination to holiness until regenerated [born again], and therefore cannot cooperate in regeneration."
     
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Regeneration Precedes Faith By R. C. Sproul
    One of the most dramatic moments in my life for the shaping of my theology took place in a seminary classroom. One of my professors went to the blackboard and wrote these words in bold letters: "Regeneration Precedes Faith."

    Two Views of Regeneration by John Hendryx (See this helpful chart for clarity)
    This is a comparison chart showing the real differences between monergism and synergism.

    I say that man, before he is renewed into the new creation of the Spirit's kingdom, does and endeavours nothing to prepare himself for that new creation and kingdom, and when he is re-created has does and endeavors nothing towards his perseverance in that kingdom; but the Spirit alone works both blessings in us, regenerating us, and preserving us when regenerate, without ourselves..." Luther (Bondage of the Will pg. 268)
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian

    by John Owen

    Excerpt from The Holy Spirit

    “To say that we are able by our own efforts to think good thoughts or give God spiritual obedience before we are spiritually regenerate is to overthrow the gospel and the faith of the universal church in all ages.”
    - John Owen

    All men can be divided into two groups. They are either regenerate or unregenerate. All men are born unregenerate (John 3:3-8).

    ...Spiritual darkness is in all men and lies on all men until God, by an almighty work of the Spirit, shines into men’s hearts, or creates light in them (Matt 4:16; John 1:5; Act 26:18; Eph 5:8; Col 1:13; 1 Pet 2:9). ...The nature of this spiritual darkness must be understood. When men have no light to see by, then they are in darkness (Exod. 10:23). Blind men are in darkness, either by birth or by illness or accident (Psa. 69:23; Gen 19:11; Acts 13:11). A spiritually blind man is in spiritual darkness and is ignorant of spiritual things.

    There is an outward darkness on men and an inward darkness in men.

    Outward darkness is when men do not have that light by which they are enabled to see. So outward spiritual darkness is upon men when there is nothing to enlighten them about God and spiritual things (Matt 4:16; Psa 119:105; Psa. 19:1-4,8; 2 Pet 1:19; Rom 10:15, 18). It is the work of the Holy Spirit to remove this darkness by sending the light of the gospel (Acts 13:2, 4; 16:6-10; Psa. 147:19,20).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    If you open the links that are in light blue, you can open the whole writing.
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    From the RC. Sproul link;
    No man has the power to raise himself from spiritual death. Divine assistance is necessary. This grace, according to Rome, comes in the form of what is called prevenient grace. "Prevenient" means that which comes from something else. Rome adds to this prevenient grace the requirement that we must "cooperate with it and assent to it" before it can take hold in our hearts.

    This concept of cooperation is at best a half-truth. Yes, the faith we exercise is our faith. God does not do the believing for us. When I respond to Christ, it is my response, my faith, my trust that is being exercised. The issue, however, goes deeper.

    The question still remains: "Do I cooperate with God's grace before I am born again, or does the cooperation occur after?" Another way of asking this question is to ask if regeneration is monergistic or synergistic. Is it operative or cooperative? Is it effectual or dependent? Some of these words are theological terms that require further explanation.

    A monergistic work is a work produced singly, by one person. The prefix mono means one. The word erg refers to a unit of work. Words like energy are built upon this root. A synergistic work is one that involves cooperation between two or more persons or things. The prefix syn -

    means "together with." I labor this distinction for a reason. The debate between Rome and Luther hung on this single point. At issue was this: Is regeneration a monergistic work of God or a synergistic work that requires cooperation between man and God? When my professor wrote
    "Regeneration precedes faith" on the blackboard, he was clearly siding with the monergistic answer. After a person is regenerated, that person cooperates by exercising faith and trust. But the first step is the work of God and of God alone.

    The reason we do not cooperate with regenerating grace before it acts upon us and in us is because we can- not. We cannot because we are spiritually dead. We can no more assist the Holy Spirit in the quickening of our souls to spiritual life than Lazarus could help Jesus raise him for the dead.
     
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Monergism gives the biblical teaching consistently;
    The Covenant of Redemption and Grace refers to the eternal, redemptive purpose of the triune God to save sinners. The unconditional nature of this covenant is revealed in the following terms, which stretch from eternity past to eternity future:

    election (Acts 13:48; Eph. 1:3–4; 1 Thess. 1:3–5; 2 Thess. 2:13). Predestination (Rom. 8:29–39; Eph. 1:5, 11).
    Redemption (Matt. 1:21; Mk. 10:45; Rom. 3:24–25; 1 Cor. 1:30; 2 Cor. 5:14–17; Eph. 1:6–7; Heb. 9:12),
    Effectual Calling (Jn. 6:37, 44; Acts 18:27; Rom. 8:28; 1 Cor. 1:24), Regeneration (Ezk. 11:19–20; 36:25–27; Jn. 3:3; Rom. 8:7–8; 2 Cor. 4:3–4; Eph. 2:4–5, 22–24; Col. 3:9–10),
    Conversion (Eph. 2:8–10),
    Adoption (Rom. 8:17–23; Gal. 4:5; Eph. 1:5),
    Justification (Rom. 3:21–28; 4:1–5; 5:1–2),
    Sanctification (Rom. 5:12–6:23; 8:1–16; Gal. 5:16–17, 22–23; Heb. 12:14) and glorification (Rom. 8:17–23, 29–39; 1 Jn. 3:1–4).
    \This covenant is unconditional because it rests in the eternal decree of God and does not depend upon man’s ability or faithfulness for its initiation, maintenance or conclusion. It is termed the Covenant of Redemption because it is redemptive in nature. It is termed the Covenant of Grace because in this covenant man is considered as a sinner and must be saved by grace alone. Should any human ability enter into this covenant, it would necessarily become a covenant of works (Rom. 11:5–6).
    The Covenant of Grace refers to the eternal redemptive purpose of the triune God to save sinners. In order to redeem sinners, God the Son became incarnate, not merely as Savior and Redeemer, but also necessarily and pointedly as Representative Man. The Covenant of Grace was especially made with the Lord Jesus Christ—the “Second Man” (in contrast to the “First Man,” Adam) and the “Last Adam” (in contrast to the “First Adam”) (Rom. 5:12–21; 1 Cor. 15:21–22, 45–47).


    By our Lord’s active obedience [his perfect life lived in conformity to the Law and its fulfillment] and passive obedience [his vicarious suffering and death, which paid the Law’s penalty, removed its curse, and answers to the righteousness of God, Rom. 1:16–17; 3:24–26; 2 Cor. 5:21; Gal. 3:13], those whom he represents are delivered from the curse of the law (Gal. 4:4–5; 3:13),
    justified and reconciled to God (Acts 13:38–39; Rom. 5:1–11; Heb. 9:12), predestined to be conformed to the image of God’s Son (Rom. 8:29; Eph. 1:5), and infallibly, fully and finally redeemed (Rom. 8:23, 29–39). Are you included in this covenant?
    From A Baptist Catechism with Commentary, by W.AR. Downing, used by permission.
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The following chart highlights some of the major points of difference in these systems:

    Synergism

    Monergism


    Cause of Regeneration


    Regeneration is the work of Christ plus the good will of unspiritual man. What makes men to differ from one another is not the grace of Jesus alone, but Jesus plus the good will of unspiritual man
    .

    Regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit alone applying the the effectual crosswork of Christ to the unspiritual man. What makes men to differ is Jesus Christ alone.

    Faith is the cause that triggers regeneration

    Regeneration has causal priority to faith (Just as a person must have eyes before they see and ears prior to their ability to hear, so one must first have a new heart in order to understand spiritual truth)


    Faith and affections for God are produced by the old nature.

    Faith is not produced by our unregenerated human nature. It is the immediate and inevitable product of the new nature. The new heart (by nature) loves Christ.



    God and Man work together to produce the new birth. God's grace takes us part of the way to salvation, man's unregenerate will must determine the final outcome. In other words belief in Christ gives rise to the new birth.


    God, the Holy Spirit, alone produces regeneration with no contribution from the sinner (A work of God). The new birth is never spoke of in the imperative (not commanded), rather man must be born again by God.


    God is eagerly awaiting the sinner's will
    .

    God effectually enables the sinner's will.

    The persons of the Trinity have conflicting goals in accomplishing and applying salvation: The Father elects a particular people; The Son dies for a general people and the Holy Spirit applies the atonement conditionally on those who exercise their autonomous libertarian free will.


    The persons of the Trinity work in harmony - The Father elects a particular people (Eph 1:3-5), Christ dies for those the Father has given Him (John 17:9, 15; Rev 5:9) and the Holy Spirit likewise applies the benefits of the atonement to the same. (Regeneration is one of the redemptive benefits of Christ's work)



    Restoration of spiritual faculties comes after the man without the Spirit exercises faith with his natural (innate) capacities. Has the ability to see spiritual truth even before healed. (see 1 Cor 2:14). Has spiritual capacity/desire to receive the truth, prior God's granting any spiritual ability.
    "


    Light" itself is not enough for a blind man to see, his vision must first be restored. (John 3:3,6). Needs spiritual ability to receive truth prior to receiving it (1 Cor 2:12; John 6:63-65 & 37).
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    pt2;
    View of Humanity

    The fallen sinner has the ability and potential inclination to believe even prior to the new birth The fallen sinner has no understanding, moral ability or inclination to believe prior to the new birth. (1 Cor 2:14).
    There is enough good left in fallen man to turn his affections toward Christ.



    Fallen Man has a mind at enmity with God; loves darkness, hates the light and does not have the Holy Spirit. "There is no one who seeks God" (Rom 3:11); Sinner would never turn to God without divine enablement and new affections.

    Sinner needs help, is spiritually handicapped
    .

    Spiritually dead sinner needs new nature (mind, heart, will), regeneration.

    \Natural man is sick and disabled like a drowning man so God would be uncaring if He didn't help by casting a rope.


    Natural man is spiritually impotent and morally culpable for sin. Our moral inability is not like a physical handicap or a drowning man for which we would not be culpable but, rather, it is like a man who cannot repay a squandered financial debt. Inability to repay, therefore, does not relieve us of the moral responsibility to do so. God, in His mercy, does not merely throw us a rope, He dives in to make certain we do not drown.
    Needs salvation from the consequences of sin - unhappiness, hell, psychological pain. Needs salvation to remove the offense we've made against a holy God and from the power and bondage of sin.



    The natural man is sovereign over his choice to accept or reject Christ - God conditionally responds to our decision. God's love for the sinner is, therefore, conditional.

    The natural man can contribute nothing towards his salvation. Faith is a response rendered certain following the efficacious work of the Holy Spirit. We respond to God's unconditional love. (Acts 13:48; John 6:37)

    Those fallen men who are saved, either created a right thought, generated a right affection, or originated a right volition that led to their salvation while some others did not have the natural wherewithal to come up with the faith that God required of them to obtain salvation. Therefore salvation is dependent on some virtue or capacity God sees in certain men. Not Jesus alone, but Jesus PLUS...

    No Fallen man will create a right thought, generate a right affection, or originate a right volition that will lead to his salvation. We would never believe unless the Holy Spirit came in and disarmed our hostility to God. Therefore salvation is dependent on God's good pleasure alone (Eph 1:4, 5, 11), not some virtue or goodwill He sees in us.


    Man's nature & affections do not determine or give rise to their choices. Even without the Holy Spirit working change in his heart, the sinner can still make a saving decision to believe the gospel. In this scheme God gives enough grace to place man in a neutral position which can swing either for or against Jesus. (An act of chance?
    )

    Man's nature determines his desires/affections and give rise to the choices he makes. Jesus bears witness to this: "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit." Luke 6:43 Only Christ can "make a tree good and its fruit will be good." (Also see John 8:34, 42-44; 2 Pet. 2:19).
     
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    pt3;
    View of the Gospel

    The Gospel is an invitation

    The Gospel is not merely an invitation, but a command (1 John 3:23)

    Christ died for all our sins except unbelief

    Christ died for all our sins including unbelief

    Sinners have the key in their hands. Man's will determines whether or not Christ's death is efficacious.

    God has the key in his hand. God's eternal counsel determines to whom the benefits of the atonement apply.


    It would be unjust of God to not give everyone an equal chance.


    If God exercised His justice then none of us would stand, since each of us is in active rebellion against an infinitely holy God. He owes us nothing and is under no obligation to save any person. Regeneration is, therefore, an act of pure, undeserved mercy because the justice we deserved, He poured out on His Son (thereby turning His wrath away from us).


    After God makes one's heart of stone into a heart of flesh the Holy Spirit's call to salvation can still be resisted.

    After God makes one's heart of stone into a heart of flesh, no person wants to resist. By definition our desires, inclinations and affections have changed so we willingly and joyfully turn in faith toward Christ.


    Salvation is given to fallen sinners (unregenerate) who choose and desire Christ of their free will.

    Apart from grace, there is no fallen sinner (unregenerate) who fits that description. A desire for God is not part of the old nature.


    The grace of God is conferred as a result of human prayer


    It is grace itself which makes us pray to God (Rom 10:20; Isa. 65:1)
    God has mercy upon us when we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, apart from his regenerative grace. To desire and seek God prior to the new birth is an impossible supposition. (Rom 3:11; 1 Cor 2:14) It is the infusion and quickening of the Holy Spirit within us that we even have the faith or the strength to will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock and believe in the finished work of Christ.


    Commands to repent and believe the gospel imply the ability of the sinner to do so
    .

    The Command toward sinners to repent and believe does not imply ability. Divine intent of the Law, according to Scripture, is to reveal our moral impotence apart from grace (Rom 3:20, 5:20, Gal 3:19,24). The Law was not designed to confer any power but to strip us of our own.

    God helps those who help themselves.


    God only helps those who cannot help themselves. (John 9:41)

    Unregenerate man contributes his little bit.

    Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to Thy Cross I cling.

    Repentance is considered a work of man.


    Repentance is a gift of God. (2 Tim 2:25)

    One of the greatest gifts God gives humans is to never interfere with their free will.


    The greatest judgment which God can inflict upon a man is to leave him in the hands of his own free-will. If salvation were left in the hands of the unregenerate sinners, we would indeed despair of all hope that anyone would be saved. It is an act of mercy, therefore, that God awakens the dead in sin to life since those without the Spirit cannot understand the things of God at all. (1 Cor 2:14)


    With Man's will salvation is possible.


    With man's will salvation (repentance and faith) is impossible, but with God all things are possible. (Matt 19:26; Rom 9:16; John 6:64,65) "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." John 3:6



     
  12. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2020
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    171
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But it is a made up word .
     
  13. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2020
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    171
    Faith:
    Baptist
    could you explain please ' cooperate in regeneration ' what do you mean by that ?
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God!
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So are trinity and Bible, but both exist!
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Think that he means that in some Christian minds, God requires us to take in salvation grace He gives thru things such as the sacraments in order to allow us enough merit to be saved by God!
     
  17. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2020
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    171
    Faith:
    Baptist
    oh if he means that then of course that is false .
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My point is that once Calvinism was defined as we now understand the theology to be, then from that moment forward Arminianism was classified as not being within it!
    And I do not have problems reading Anglicans, as I have enjoyed those such as CS Lewis AND JI Packer, just not one such as NT Wrong!
     
  19. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2020
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    171
    Faith:
    Baptist
    the words ' trinity ' and ' bible ' are real words and not fictional .
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,485
    Likes Received:
    3,567
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What you mean, then, is not Calvinism but the "Five Points" or the response to the "Five Articles". I agree with you on that. Obviously the rebuttal in 1619 of the Articles of 1610 stands in opposition to those articles. That was their purpose.

    I was speaking of Calvinism, not just it's conclusions regarding the Five Articles. We were speaking past one another.
     
Loading...