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Featured The Corruption of the Human Spirit

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by AustinC, Jul 22, 2020.

  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Job 38:1-41
    Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said: “Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me. “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? “Or who shut in the sea with doors when it burst out from the womb, when I made clouds its garment and thick darkness its swaddling band, and prescribed limits for it and set bars and doors, and said, ‘Thus far shall you come, and no farther, and here shall your proud waves be stayed’? “Have you commanded the morning since your days began, and caused the dawn to know its place, that it might take hold of the skirts of the earth, and the wicked be shaken out of it? It is changed like clay under the seal, and its features stand out like a garment. From the wicked their light is withheld, and their uplifted arm is broken. “Have you entered into the springs of the sea, or walked in the recesses of the deep? Have the gates of death been revealed to you, or have you seen the gates of deep darkness? Have you comprehended the expanse of the earth? Declare, if you know all this. “Where is the way to the dwelling of light, and where is the place of darkness, that you may take it to its territory and that you may discern the paths to its home? You know, for you were born then, and the number of your days is great! “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow, or have you seen the storehouses of the hail, which I have reserved for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war? What is the way to the place where the light is distributed, or where the east wind is scattered upon the earth? “Who has cleft a channel for the torrents of rain and a way for the thunderbolt, to bring rain on a land where no man is, on the desert in which there is no man, to satisfy the waste and desolate land, and to make the ground sprout with grass? “Has the rain a father, or who has begotten the drops of dew? From whose womb did the ice come forth, and who has given birth to the frost of heaven? The waters become hard like stone, and the face of the deep is frozen. “Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades or loose the cords of Orion? Can you lead forth the Mazzaroth in their season, or can you guide the Bear with its children? Do you know the ordinances of the heavens? Can you establish their rule on the earth? “Can you lift up your voice to the clouds, that a flood of waters may cover you? Can you send forth lightnings, that they may go and say to you, ‘Here we are’? Who has put wisdom in the inward parts or given understanding to the mind? Who can number the clouds by wisdom? Or who can tilt the waterskins of the heavens, when the dust runs into a mass and the clods stick fast together? “Can you hunt the prey for the lion, or satisfy the appetite of the young lions, when they crouch in their dens or lie in wait in their thicket? Who provides for the raven its prey, when its young ones cry to God for help, and wander about for lack of food?
    Romans 9:14-24
    What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
     
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  2. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    This is the problem with the gospel if Calvinism. There is no answer for the hope that is within you.

    Paul was not a Calvinist: Acts 16:30-31 (KJV) 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
     
  3. Pipiripi

    Pipiripi Member

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    Hi, I have a big problem with your own Spirit. If we read kn Matthew 12:43-45, we can see that nobody has their own spirit. And also Jesus confirm this to us, Luke 24:38-39. And the only spirit that can enter in human body is the fallen angels and the Holy Spirit. Did someone has read in the Bible that God Angels has entered in humans body? If there is let me know where I can read it.
    God bless.
     
  4. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    This is probably the most obvious answer to your question: Acts 7:59 (KJV)
    And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

    However, I think this leaves open the possibility that “my spirit” is the portion of God’s spirit in Stephen was what he was giving back to God. That allows it to be compatible with Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV)
    Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


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  5. Pipiripi

    Pipiripi Member

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    I know that spirit have different meanings, in acts 7:59, and Ecclesiastes and Jesus dying on the cross have the same meanings. The spirit here is stop breathing. The source of breathing go back to God from where it comes from. The word spirit here is BREATH. Read Ezekiel 37:1-14. Look at verse 5, 9, 10, and specially verse 14.
     
  6. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    So, of the two or three uses of "spirit", do any of them allow for a concept of "my spirit", as per Stephen? The "four winds" usage seems to indicate the "breath" is NOT directly from God (not "His" spirit), but then in vs 14, it IS God's spirit, and that spirit is tied to the return to the land as well as life.

    This picture is not a "dead spirit", as the OP seems to be thinking of, but dead bodies/bones that have no spirit (life), nor even flesh. So I'm not so sure the "corrupted spirit" and "dead bones" are the same thing, though I've heard some pastors use the term "spiritually dead" in talking about Ezekiel's dry bones.
     
  7. Pipiripi

    Pipiripi Member

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    Spiritually dead means someone that was once in God's way and than have returned to the world life again. In Ezekiel God is showing what will happen when Jesus returns to take His people to go live in heaven for 1000 years millennium. Vers 14, God means exactly what He is saying. MY SPIRIT, and that is the breath of life. We don't have our own Spirit. And that spirit in us is what make us breathe. God give live, and God can take any live He wanted.
     
  8. Pipiripi

    Pipiripi Member

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    One thing more, when someone like "Lazarus" who was 4 days dead, when Jesus was praying to His Father, did He says: "Spirit of Lazarus come out of heaven and enter his body?" No! When Jesus finished His praying, He LOOKED on the tomb and say: "Lazarus come OUT". I want you to show me in the Bible where I can see a spirit of some dead body come down from heaven and entered the dead body.
     
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Are you proposing everyone is a golem?
     
  10. Pipiripi

    Pipiripi Member

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    Yes, Why? Because when God created man, He has created him from the dust. Read Genesis.
     
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Good to know. Enjoy your golem.

    Job 32:8 But it is the spirit in man, the breath of the Almighty, that makes him understand.

    Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

    Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord, searching all his innermost parts.

    Zechariah 12:1 The oracle of the word of the Lord concerning Israel: Thus declares the Lord, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him:

    John 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

    1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    1 Corinthians 2:11-16 For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
     
  12. Pipiripi

    Pipiripi Member

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    My friend again, spirit of the man means breathe of the man. Not a ghost inside trapped in you. Soul and body is the same thing. Read Genesis 2:7 in the King James Version and in New King James Version. When God created man from the dust, he was a death (body), and when God breathed His breath in the man nostrils he became a living (soul). Don't listen to me, if Jesus is your master, follow Jesus. Read again what Jesus says what can enter a human body.
    Matthew 12:43-45.
     
  13. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    I'm curious why the golem idea bothers you. Are you saying that we are NOT "clay vessels" of God's spirit? [Psa 139:16 KJV] Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect;[H1564] and in thy book all [my members] were written, [which] in continuance were fashioned, when [as yet there was] none of them. H1564 is Strong's for the word "golem".
     
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I am curious why all those verses about the spirit of man mean nothing to you?
    Was God lying?
     
  15. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    Are you saying you think those verses refute the golem concept? Why do those have anything to do with refuting golems? This was one of your verses: But it is the spirit in man, the breath of the Almighty, that makes him understand.
    I'm not sure how you can read that any other way than that God's breath is the spirit of man that allows man to understand. Thus, the golem concept is strengthened with that verse.

    I'm not saying I agree with the golem idea, but if God makes man of clay, then breathes life into him, and that breath returns to God when the man dies, it sounds golemish.
     
  16. Pipiripi

    Pipiripi Member

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    Read Ezekiel 37
    Read Ezekiel 37:1-14 again. But this time pray before you read.
     
  17. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    Why don’t you explain what your point is instead.


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  18. Pipiripi

    Pipiripi Member

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    My point is exactly how it is written in the Bible. Don't put nothing and don't take nothing of the Word of God. Galatians 1:1-10
     
  19. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    Which is exactly like saying, “I’m the only perfect interpreter of God’s word, so if anyone disagrees with me, their wrong.”


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  20. Pipiripi

    Pipiripi Member

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    The Bible interpreted itself, Paul and the other apostles is telling us that what Jesus has teached them, THEY are teaching us. If someone teached something that is contrary to what we have in the Bible, and if they know that their teaching is wrong and continue in their own way, their is a curse already upon their head. Do you have see me write something that isn't BIBLICAL? Do you know why? Because the Word of God don't return back to God till it have done the purpose that God sent it to do. If I don't obey God Words, there is a curse already upon my head. The Bible means what it says.
     
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